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August 31, 2009
Fraud, threats and lack of women mark Afghan elections

Afghanistan’s election commission said today that President Hamid Kazai continues to hold a wide lead over the former foreign minister Abdullah Abdullah. With almost half the vote counted in the presidential election, Karzai has almost 46 percent to about 33 percent for Abdullah. But the results continue to be clouded by reports of fraud, which have increased substantially in recent days.

Karin von Hippel, a senior fellow for the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C., just returned from monitoring the elections in Afghanistan. She speaks with Daljit Dhaliwal about how the security situation affected the vote.

Also in Afghanistan today, General Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan, delivered an assessment of the war there. In a statement, McChrystal said “The situation in Afghanistan is serious, but success is achievable and demands a revised implementation strategy, commitment, and resolve, and increased unity of effort.”

Can U.S. and NATO forces win the war in Afghanistan?

Tell us what you think in the comments section below.

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We abandoned Afghanistan after the Soviet debacle. At a time we could have invested in infrastructure, agriculture, education which is a much smaller price to pay than warfare. Warfare is the most expensive way to put forth a political agenda. But that is water under the bridge, all those that wish to abandon Afghanistan must realize the end result would be another training ground for anti-Western Jihadists. So, we tried the hands off approach and it became the most expensive way to go.

The West can’t ignore the region because of the Islamic hotbed of violence, hatred that is fueled against the West. No matter what the problem of many Islamic cultures they blame the West out of course without any rationale or proof. Their hatred against us is cultural but especially religious. They view Christianity as a force that wishes to strip Islam of faith. They are at war with the imagination of Christian faith which is not supported by the Koran. Christians and Jews are both people of the book, ie “the Bible!” Therefore Christians and Jews have special dispensation according to Islam, this is no longer the case under radical Islam. Christians and Jews are the most hated above and beyond Islamic normal hatreds against Infidels, Kafirs those that do not worship using the Bible.

The Western world must wake up and appreciate this seed change in the people that rabidly choose us as enemies. No matter what unilateral action we choose, thinking we will change our status as chosen enemies of Islam, we have no such ability to change that status.

Islamists will replace modern banking with an acceptable Sharia form of financial transaction. Islamists will conquer the remain non-Muslim lands in order to prepare the way for their Messiah, who will not come until the world is Islamic.

The only form of government for the entire world including all Western countries and Asia will be the Caliphate, that golden realm of paradise on earth.

Western people do not know any of these factors and yet they are core realities that cause young Muslims to suicide themselves to paradise, it causes young Jihadis to slaughter unarmed men and women in Mumbai, India and if given the chance they will suicide themselves with nuclear weapons insead of semtex and ball bearings.

Perhaps only 20% of Islamic youth fall prey to radical Islamic Mullahs, but in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the only education often is by the radical Mullahs in religious schools paid for by Jihadist leaning Muslims all over thw world.

We have tried letting the fight come to us and 9/11 was the result. There were over 800 such Islamic attacks all over the world by the same people before our own 9/11. What average American and European understand the depth of Islamic desire to remake the world into their Jihadist visions? This will not change by abandoning the fight, it will only bring it to our streets. No matter what it takes, I suggest leaving it in their streets. On an earlier post I saw a complaint about 1 million Iraqi civilians having been killed. Maybe you would prefer those casualties in London or Berlin, New York? The war will not change for a long time to come, only where we fight it. We have yet to convince young Muslims to value their lives more than the imagination of a few evil Mullahs luring them to their deaths. Iran, Hezzbollah, Palestinian groups are more examples of the same ideological genre of Islamic world domination by Jihadis. We will be lucky to save Pakistan, we will be lucky to contain the fight in South Asia without a world war, without nuclear exchanges! Get it, it is much more serious then you understand.


It seems the answer depends upon your definition of “win.” I recently read a book that sheds front-lines perspective on both the moral and military issues surrounding this war and the Afghan culture. The book is “AFGHAN JOURNAL: A SOLDIER’S YEAR IN AFGHANISTAN” by Jeff Courter (an Army seargent who knows what it’s like to mentor and train Afghans to fight Taliban terror on their own turf). His book site is at: He also writes a fascinating blog, focused on commentary primarily about life, death, war and faith:


I was there in 56-58 and saw the countries. There is no way in He11 the US and Nato can solve this. We tried several times and it has failed Russia tried and they failed let them be, some day they might settle it but I will and do doubt such ever occuring. Why sould we send troops in harms way to please the war machines of the US of A. Our tax payers will some day turn, I hope it is soon. Frank Bowers now 71 and looking on in disgust.


put the guns down help & educate yes we will win


Jesus said to “turn the other cheek.”

We don’t have to be as radical. We can at least learn about the grievances of our adversaries and then maybe even atone or at least apologize.

“for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” Matthew 26:52

“Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.” Matthew 5:9


Christian greetings. Afghanistan needs examples of love. Afghanistan works with pride. Pride is the power of people who don’t know love. Pride is about physical, material things. “You have what we want, and we’re going to take it” is from pride, whereas love appreciates all it has and doesn’t need what belongs to others. Afghanistans need examples of love to overcome the evil of their oppressors. Love never fails is a promise from God’s Word. God is love. Peace be with you in Jesus’ Name, which is LOVE/GOD with us/man/woman/humanity.


We need to send out the message that we do not want to eradicate the Taliban. They must have their own form of government, we can protect those who don’t want them around.

“Thanks to space, our forces are able to move faster and fight smarter and more precisely. Those are keys to success in any war, but particularly in the type of unconventional counterinsurgency operations we’re conducting in Afghanistan, Iraq and around the world in the Global War on Terrorism.”
-former Air Force Space Command Commander, General Lance W. Lord

“Whatever you think you know about Afghanistan is in direct inverse proportion to how often you have been there. The more you go there, the more you know how much you don’t know.”
-Dan Rather



i just remind Mr khan that American went there to save lives. the country was in miserable condition becaue the taliban make ilfe of hell to the people there. Isalm does not save lives ,Islam inflict great suffering for the people there, life will be wonderful without islam


No. We can’t impose Western values on folks who have both feet in the Dark Ages. The policy ought to be an open-ended withdrawl based on the understanding that any further assistance to aggressive organizations who support war on the West will result in massive, dramatic punishment by whatever means necessary. But there should be no attempt to hold territory except for short term tactical purposes. The point of such a policy should be: “Live like savages if you like but confine your activities to your own territory or suffer terrible consequences.”


We owe no responsibility to bring stability to Afghanistan. The 9/11 attacks came from Saudi Arabians, Al Quaeda is now in Somalia and Saudi. Why are we fighting and killing American boys? Even the Afghanis were unable to have an election. Let us get out in due haste.


Peter Nennhaus, after 1968 there were too few cadres to produce any effective geurrilla activity in Vietnam. NVA filled the positions left vacant after Tet offensive. So you see, Vietnam was a war of two regular armies and no longer a geurilla war. One of the main tennets of successful geurrilla war is the high value they place upon the lives of their fighters. North Vietnam broke that tennet for serious political reasons. North Vietnam did not wish to have another military organization except NVA. They purposely invited the destruction of the Viet Cong just as the Soviet Army allowed Germany to destroy the communist freedom fighters in Poland while the Soviet Army waited for a month while Germany destroyed the partisans. Ho Chi Minh was first and foremonst a Stalinist.

This mislead the world public and the American public. The world made decisions on what the Soviets defined, this gauranteed a Soviet victory in SE Asia.

In Afghanistan the real issues are tribal. The Taliban are essentially Pushtun. However their religious dogma demands a rejection of tribal affiliations and all governments save the Caliphate. The Taliban believe in the recreation of the 11th Century Caliphate to be ruled by the Messiah. They believe the Messiah will come once the Muslims have conqeured the world, prepared the Caliphate for the coming dispensations. I like what bonobo says about isolating the Pushtun and making them have their own state ruled by themselves. An intermal border would be more strongly patrolled than the current border with Pakistan. Pakistan may yet fall to extremists and then we would once again have a regular army to fight.

In order for Islamic radicalism to win this fight, they will need economies of scale. Assymmetrical war is fine for terrorists but to conquest huge swathes of the globe as is required of Islamic radicalism. Large minorities have to gain support in every Islamic community in the world. From there the economies of scale requires an increasing normal warfare instead of geurrilla activity.

We have to hold on and find the key to understanding and fighting the Taliban while our economies of scale work in our favor.


We cannot “win” in Afganistan. We should bring our people home. Those lives and money could then be used for the betterment of our country. We should protect our homeland. We should stop trying to change the world – it is impossible to do so. Each country will do whatever they see fit – regardless of what we do. History has proven that.


There is no way the U.S. can win. It is Viet nam all over again. There has never, ever been any kind of functionioning central government. The Karzai regime is corrupt and rotten to the core and has only limited control in about one third of the country. The Taliban are being funded by the opium trade which cannot be eradicated as well as hard core Wahabis in Saudi Arabia and their sanctuary in Pakistan cannot be removed because the tribes live on both sides of the border. Even if by day, the U.S. can successfully win the “hearts and minds” of villagers, the Taliban will come back at night and tell them: some day the Americans will leave. Whose side do you want to belong to????

That’s how it was in Viet Nam.

Andrew Schoerke, Capt USNR ret.


Our chances of winning in Afghanistan are minimal. Among 25 major guerrilla campaigns during the last 100 years, the insurgents were defeated in only two. Eleven times they achieved outright victory, and in the remaining twelve they were at least not defeated or silenced. They even achieved outright victory against two superpowers – the Americans in Vietnam and the Soviets in Afghanistan. If we look at the track record, guerrilla fighters have proven to be nearly invincible. It is unwise for us to persist.


I don’t see how we can achieve “success”. It doesn’t look like we have a definite plan. As soon as we leave, the Taliban will be back. The Russians wasted 9 years there. We were there in 2002 and left. Why is this occupation any different?


Theoretically, yes. But.

It would require 80-90% control of the southern, eastern, and western borders, external auditing of government ministries and the justice system, a fully funded educational system, massive development of internally sustainable industries (in the broadest sense), and doing all this competently for at least fifteen years, preferably thirty. In short, building a nation. Failure to address corruption and poverty concurrently with security will only continue a slow bleed that could go really bad at any time.

At a very rough estimate, this would cost half again what is currently going into Iraq. I really don’t see the US making this level of commitment in the foreseeable economic environment. Particularly when it has it’s own budding anti-government insurgency.

There is a significantly less costly option, short of a total disengagement. Cut Pashtunistan loose. Concentrate all resources in the Dari regions. Let the Taliban be Pakistan’s problem (might even shock them out of their India obsession). Security costs will be dramatically lower, and economic development will be much easier.

Hardly a perfect solution, of course, but sometimes the best you can do is half a country. South Korea and West Germany worked out pretty well, and we even got to bring East Germany back in after a couple generations. What would be a total fantasy here is thinking that Afghanistan will only take a few more years.


“Thanks to space, our forces are able to move faster and fight smarter and more precisely. Those are keys to success in any war, but particularly in the type of unconventional counterinsurgency operations we’re conducting in Afghanistan, Iraq and around the world in the Global War on Terrorism.”
-former Air Force Space Command Commander, General Lance W. Lord

“Whatever you think you know about Afghanistan is in direct inverse proportion to how often you have been there. The more you go there, the more you know how much you don’t know.”
-Dan Rather

Over a million Iraqis have died since our ’03 invasion, yet only 4300 US soldiers.

There’s been about 2 million Afghan refugees or something?

The US can win this war by admitting that the Taliban are no worse than say Kopassus–who tortured thousands, raped nuns, assassinated priests, burned and buried people alive and lopped off body parts of people so as to intimidate their family, etc.

And that we continued to help the Taliban on the war on drugs in full knowledge of their anti-Americanism and torturous ways.


Bob Camp, I can’t believe your statements. The Populace of Afghanistan in large measure do not support Taliban, they are afraid of Taliban but they do not agree or support Taliban. The US is there to support freedom of people to worship Islam, we are not there to change the people just the government by building something that is not there. Yes there will be problems, corruption and so forth but it is a process. Evidently you know nothing of American armed forces. Defeating determined adversaries has been the US speciality for a long time. We defeated North Vietnam and VC militarily and our people at home wasted our efforts by being namby pamby like you, wishy washy. The US population felt wrongly that TET offensive was a defeat for America and South Vietnam. It was a resplendid absolute victory. If our reporters had half the strength that our soldiers exemplified on the battlefield, the reporting would have shown the truth not the propagandist communist lies. We are not going to wipe out villages like the Soviet’s did in Afghanistan.

In 1968 the NVA bragged that they wiped out 15,000 hamlets and villages in South Vietnam and murdered their inhabitants because they did not support the North’s communist cause. This was never reported in the Western press. NVA assassinated 650,000 South Vietnamese School teachers, doctors, mailmen, mayors, anyone that made the South Vietnamese government work. This was never reported by the Western press. Ho Chi Minh murdered 5 million Vietnamese civilians from 1945-1975 and several million afterwords. The great crimes against the Vietnamese people was never reported by the Western press. People like you have a defeatis attitude. The US military are very awesome human beings, never sell them short. If we chose to win, we will win in Afghanistan and the people of Afghanistan will be the victors.

We are fighting an assymmetrical war with Islamic fascists that have been planning this war for decades. It will not end because someone says so. This war will continue because it is a great cultural war between civilization and barbarism. Taliban represent the most radical evil of Islamic weirdness and no matter what the brand or flavor they all have the same goals. World domination of Islam so that their Messiah will come. I have talked extensively with these people, I first met them in the Middle East 3 decades ago, I knew then we would eventually be at war with these people. They refuse the world you and I take for granted. They seek to return to 6th Century Islam to build the world wide Caliphate. Study our enemy because that is the only way you will understand how to prevail. It is not enough for Islam to rise, they require the West to be destroyed. You will either fight them on their land or we will be fighting them on our lands, there is no elective not to fight to do so is suicide.


The people of Afghanistan didn’t give U.S. attacks of 9-11 as they came from Saudis in SAUDI ARABIA and to fight a war for purpose of imposing “elections” constitutes interference in the internal affairs of another nation. How would U.S. citzens like it if there were foreign forces marching around the U.S. with guns and weapons?


No this war can not be won any more than the war in Iraq could have been. But far be it for President Barak Obama, or Prime Minister Gordon Brown to let an intelligent historical perspective deter them from pursuing their thinly veiled imperialist invasion. Dwight David Eisenhower could well be turning over in his grave to see how the “military industrial complex” has evolved to the point where endless war has become ecomomic policy. There are presently more private contractors in Afghanistan than there are U.S. military personnel. Cha ching!

Michael J. Halliday


The very presence of US and Nato troops in Afghanistan shows the hatred of the west against Muslims. You can sugarcoat it anyway you like, and show it to the world that the troops are there to help the people, yes to a very small percentage who are corrupt and seek luxury and power. But step outside your armored car and you will get the true picture. Nobody in the Muslim world wants foreign troops on their land. The strategy of killing the unarmed or a rifle carrying peasant and then distributing candies to their kids cannot win hearts ! think again! the tempers are flaring and US is moving further and further away from achieving peace.
The mission of assurance that another attack on US soil will never be hatched in Afghanistan is undeniable. 9/11 attack may have been hatched in Afghanistan but resources used were passenger jets. Most Afghans cannot ride a bike let alone the technology needed to build jets or nuclear bombs.
Killing of innocent civilians and bombing of villages in the name of fighting terrorism is no way of safeguarding the American public. A good evaluation will prove that this policy has put all Americans at risk especially in the Muslim world.


The only way this can be won is to convince the Afghan people of their right to govern themselves. Free of the Taliban, the corruption of Karzai,and the U.S. military. Occupation of Afghanistan has been a proven bad strategy.


Not All the King’s Horses, nor All the King’s Men could ever hope to accomplish this Impossible feat!

This WAR was LOST, Long before the First Shot was ever Fired!!

What has been Desperately needed is an Afghani Government with a BackBone. This Karzai “The President of Kabul”, is a BIG Part of the Problem!!!

The Final Solution lies in the hands of the Pashtoo (Pashtun, Pakhtoon) People, especially the Women!!!!

Peace, Love & Respect.


Its a ‘No-Win’ situation period!


We cannot “win” in Afghantistan. The foe is a dedicated , fanatcally religous populace. The will be defeated , if ever, by a change within; a religious conversion. Besides, we have no justification for a war there. The Taliban did not and cannot attack or harm us. I believe Bush-Cheney used 9/11 as an excuse to destroy their gov. because they had refused to approve a pipeline across their country. Bin Laden is no more of a threat to us than is George W. Bush now even though they were each a deadly force. They are history; a sad history


This war can be won but not with our hands tied behind our backs This means an all out effort.


This war can be won but not with our hands tied behind our backs This means an all out effort. “Keep your eye on the ball and your ear to the ground will not result in a base hit.


No. Not a chance.


Although I agree with the principle that the evil Taliban needed to be taken out, there was no real plan to effect peace within Afghanistan. Presently, because of the warlords and drug lords in the north, the fact that Karzai is basically only the president of a corrupt administration in Kabul, and the resurgent Taliban, I don’t see much hope. In the end, it is not worth it, because democracy and cultural changes can NOT be imposed on them by any foreign occupation!


can taliban be defeated. yes yes and yes . put massive force like in world war two .any one holding ak 47 should be considered taliban so also any one carring rocket propelled grenades.stop taliban getting funds completely. donet say that 100 million mentioned in drug caseis enough to get all the wepons.Nobody says how the get their wepons . if you say you know why cant they cut off the pipe line they cannot fight if no arms are avilable. seal border with pakistan completely( LIke what usa has around the country every one coming in is throughly screenedat the borderthis will stamp out illegal arms coming inthe length of afghan border is probly less than us border with mexico so it is duable.massive force increase , stoppage of illegalfund coming and interdiction of all ssmall arms like ak 47 RPGS will reduce their fighting ability. taliban is playing by vietnam war model in that daily few losses of solders will weaken the nato( probably true)in thir countries


What do we mean by winning? Can we keep Islamic extremism marginalized in Afghanistan, YES…absolutely. Afghanistan will not appear as a Democracy such as Pakistan or India in the near term. Pakistan has been living dual lives as both moderator and instigator of radical Islamic affairs. No radical Islamic institution can exist in Pakistan without support by ISI, the Pakistan CIA.

Pakistan views Afghanistan as the Islamic bulwark protecting its northern border, for this reason Pakistan has collectively supported radical Islamic entities. The radical Islamists give a protection against many foreign investments. Certain Pakistani’s would rather see a chaotic, violent Afghanistan teeming with radical Islamic Muhajadeen. This would give Pakistan protection against adventures by Iran, Russia or the USA.

Islamic duplicity has been a mainstay in the region since the first Islamic of conquests of Hindu South Asia. The only way to understand the situation is to read the history of the area back before the first Mogul empires.

We are smack dab in the center of world wide Islamic adventures in conquest. Islamic conquests were not always a conquest of big armies but of conquests of vast movements of Muslims into non-Muslim lands in a peaceful manner only later changing in time to a warrior effort of conquest. This is how Islam made large inroads into the Indian sub-continent first by changes in migration, then by military conquests. The same Islamic method of conquest over took the Eastern Roman Empire until the final 1453 conquest of Constantinople in the 15th Century by Muslim Turks.

Christendom has nearly lost several times to warring Islamic Holy Warriors seeking to end Christianity and supplant Christendom with Islam. Only by the hair on our chins did great leaders arise to beat back the terrible Asian and Middle Eastern Islamic hordes bent on conquest. Paris, Vienna, Italy have all been saved from advancing Islamic conquests by great Christian leaders.

There is very little difference between the ancient hordes of Islamic Moors on the Iberian Peninsula or the Ottoman Turks in Vienna 1683.

In 732 AD, Charles Martel saved Europe and the white race by stopping the Saracens, Muslims of Arabic and Black origins of North Africa in between Tours and Potiers. 375,000 Saracens were killed by an exhausted Europe. It took 800 years to push the Saracens out of Europe in 1492 by Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain. There were constant attempts at Islamic conquest of Christendom, Islamic conquests of Sicily, Naples, Malta. It wasn’t until the Battle of Vienna that the Islamic conquest of Christendom was finally broken.

The Crusades were an attempt to push back the Islamic hordes from previously Christian lands in the Holy lands. It is these events of Christian attempts to retake their old lands that have radicalized Islam to view the Crusades as Christian agression. They fail to see that it is only the Christian attempt to return their ancestral lands taken by Islam.

Just as the loss of Hindu lands to Islamic invaders has cause to this day creates the terrible tensions between Pakistan, Kashmir and India. Hindu India has perservered through centuries of genocide and slaughter at the hands of Muslims who managed to slaughter 80 million Hindi at the point of a sword during waves of Islamic conquests sweeping down from the Hindu Kush onto the fertile plains of India.

To make a long story understandable, Muslims know this history, breath it, believe it, depend upon it.

In the recent Islamic world conquests and Jihadist adventurism began between the world wars. Pakistan fueled the Islamic radicals with enough weapons and training to succeed in over 800 terrorist attacks world wide. It was the Jihadist success against the Soviet Union in the 1980’s, the success against the USS Cole, the destruction of the US Embassies in Africa that emboldened the Jihadists to strike the World Trade Towers, the recent Islamic attacks on Mumbai, India are all continuations of the ancient Islamic struggle, its promise to Allah to turn the whole world to Islam before the Promised coming of the Islamic Messiah.

Few people who read this board can grasp the Islamic mindset that allows 7th Century Islamic reality and cultural iconography to still be in force as if it was created yesterday. Hindu’s know the Islamic facts this is why the two religious factions of South Asia are poised against each other with a small nuclear arsenal.

The clear Islamic imperative that Charles Martel, Charlemagne, Ferdinand and Isabella, Constantinople cleary understood and fought to forestall Islamic ambitions is as alive today.
The world is still living under the Islamic sword of Damocles. To believe anything less is to invite destruction.


We should not send any more troops to win this war. In the long run we will loose many young lives without winnig. Histroy has shown everyone has lost in Afganistan. So let us take a lesson from history and leave the country so more lives are not lost. It is better to leave the country and spend the money and effort to protect our country. In the long run we we will loose.


This is not a traditional ‘war’. This is an occupation. Granted, the occupiers are a multi-national force but they are still occupiers. Afghanistan is not a sophisticated nation. They lag behind the developed nations in many respects, their attitudes toward women not the least. But such massive cultural changes cannot be imposed on them by foreigners. Even the Taliban reflect accepted cultural standards, as barabaric as they may seem to our eyes. The young men and women sent to Afghanistan are losing their lives for no good purpose.

I believe the only real interest the West has in Afghanistan is the oil pipeline through the country. No mention is made of it in the media. Karzai was an oil industry consultant, which was why he was installed as leader in the first place. Alas, the corruption surrounding this whole venture is not restricted to Afghanis.


At some point, the powers that be will realize that we’re losing too many lives and too much money to keep up this war. It’s just not worth it.


Why can’t we learn not to fight with people in their own countries. They have the right to any government they choose. Sometimes I feel that we thrust democracy upon countries the way that the Communists did with their ideology,


With what Point…
are we…Anywhere…
on Earth?

Wars may come…
only to pass

and Wars may,
sometimes, cease…

for the span of time
it takes to create
some small place

for a more
rationally sane
intellectually atmospheric
to drive through
various channels
of regions
of projected space
to bring in some Clouds–
Temporally Feasible
which may resemble
some mild
Forms Of Camouflaged Peace


…but the Point?

Have we ever come
to A Full Conclusion…

as to…
The Main Point?

If Ten Thousand Opinions
cannot be reduced
to One Correct Option…

One Opinion alone (untested) will not be able
to square the circular nature of the Changes
required when the Ten-Thousand-Spoked
Wheel of Strategy is set into Motion…
which must, solitarily, process the Waters
of Information received from many Sources
through wildernesses
of varying Theologico-Political Landscapes
and Forces which infiltrate
through any of many Options
as when such liquid Plans
begin to flow into various and flexible
methods of Irrigations on many levels…
terrestrial and subterranean
as well as celestial.

What is the true Nature
of the Hub of the Wheel, then…

What Is The Main Point?


Yes, but only with the cooperation and assistance of reformed central and regional governments, military and police force.


Afganistan will not be politically stable.the cenral gov is not control the whole country.the country controls by punch of thugs they call them elder . it is waste of money and resources to spend on Afghanistan


No. Nor should we try. This once marvelous culture is a morass of ignorance, corruption and vengeance. Propose to the taliban that if they give us Bin Laden and the other perpertrators of 9/11 we will withdraw all combat troops and support humanitartian efforts through the UN.

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