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December 9, 2009
Copenhagen kerfuffle erupts after leak of ‘Danish text’

On the third day of the climate change conference in Copenhagen, controversy has erupted between rich and poor nations over a startling new proposal on global warming.

The uproar began after The Guardian obtained a copy of a proposal called the “Danish Text,” which turns the existing approach upside down.

Among other things, it would allow rich countries to pollute more than poor nations.

For more on the controversy in Copenhagen, Daljit Dhaliwal interviews Scott Barrett, a professor at Columbia University.

Will the world ever reach a deal on climate change, or are conferences like Copenhagen doomed to fail?

Tell us what you think in the comments section below. Please remember to be respectful and on-point in your comments. Malicious or offensive comments will be deleted and repeat offenders will be banned.

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30 comments

#30

The Last Word? If no-one posts after opinions wane, does that mean everyone accepts the last word? Facts mean nothing if connective metrics are faulty… Has everyone heard the Inuits tale? They have no ice to live and hunt on, where they are rooted. The elders say that the tides are gradually setting higher and lower. Mr. Facts? Oceans rising how many inches? Metrics I am familiar with graduate to feet after so many inches. Is eleven inches conclusive metrics in “inch” calibration…before you need to say, “A foot?” Can you be more specific???

Tidal forces converge these inches, higher and harder, just like a tsunami pulling out a tide.
Global warming intensifies values of everything! Wind: Heat: Rain: Hurricanes: Tornadoes: Tides: All hit and miss with no warning. The laws of physics will not mask themselves as the “White Man” has. I believe the Inuits. They evolved a culture that shares facts. Verbally.

Unfortunately: The world has learned well; How to be mute in a dysfunctional, abusive, dog eat dog, (may I say), “~feral~” form of defiance. Define feral: (Mr. Facts?) That is easy: Too wild (insular) to approach. (here kitty, kit…fffsss)

I have approached polititions, to no avail…
Many try. Everyone hates facts not wanted??? Nah.
Certain “intellectual property” must prevail…
Even Ma and Pa deal that out daily. Maybe … now that the ice is no longer a tennable commodity up North … feral crys may rally the Inuit Tribes.

#29

Climate conferences will be of little lasting value until they embrace broader scientific and economic input. There will always be a lot of thoughtful people who have a hard time taking global warming seriously.

Most people want to take care of our Planet. And most technically savvy people do understand the science invoked by the man made global warming (AGW) movement. But many do not find the AGW arguments and conclusions convincing. The movement’s work seems burdened with unsubstantiated premises and exaggerations.

For example; there’s plenty of Antarctic ice, Kilimanjaro’s changes are a result of regional deforestation not Industrial CO2 and Greenland has returned to growing vegetables after a 50 year cold spell! Please look at the links below.

Developed coastal regions are already protected against tides and storm surges, and realistic projections of sea level rise seem to be inches, not feet. Bangladesh has always had flooding problems – – they do need help!

Commercial greenhouse operators add heat and CO2 to improve their harvests! So where’s the problem?

We must take care of our planet and help its beleaguered people. But let us advance with schemes that have broad scientific and economic approval – – not the Consensus, what ever that means, from a limited group of fanatics and their trusting followers.

What would be the outcome if we polled everyone who understands the science, not just the subset who have already embraced the AGW concept? Has that been done?

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=175b568a-802a-23ad-4c69-9bdd978fb3cd&Issue_id

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/daily.html

http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/16905/Junk_Science_Kilimanjaros_Snow_Cap.html

#28

Ahh…The News, AKA the ME\dia… At any given time in any city in the World, case sensitive data is being created and traded under the table to the public. It is no secret. Diligence is up to the public now-a-days. A classic low light was the Associated Press of Chicago: 12/2006 I believe…according to the spoof trial on “Boston Legal” where the script villified the farce. I.E.

A UFO WAS REPORTED BY PILOTS and GROUND CREWS TO…”Part the clouds,” leaving O-HARE airspace.

I actually seen the initial newscast. Now, to me, who-ever concocted and produced this anecdote and fed it into the system, where a real person stood in front of the union cameras, must have had some lateral or latent agenda to broadcast. MMMmmm. I wonder what code was written into the imagery, and who was the actual recipient. (Sigh) I guess the more trash that we are inundated by the more we will miss the pot of gold, because there are one hundred red ribbons on every tree, instead of the one with the Leprechans Booty. What is new???

It is all somewhere in a cluttered house.
Unfortunately, a hasty cleaning is ill advised.

#27

for those who are interested in actual (not junk) science, read more about ‘global warming’ at:wattsupwiththatcom

#26

“Sorry frank, but that’s the most disingenuous description of what happened. The emails you describe weren’t just ‘questionable.’
They outlined the process by which the peer review process in climate ’science’ should be subverted.
They discuss techniques used to manipulate data. They discuss DELETING original data so that they don’t have to turn it over to those who have submitted a FOIA request. And I haven’t even mention all the sordid details of what you’ll find in the leaked FORTRAN files…HELLO!
This is out and out fraud by the very people upon whom the UN IPCC relies to provide them with climate science. Thousands of climate scientists rely on the GISS/CRU data for their reports.
So no, this isn’t some minor, non-event. It strikes to the heart of the idea that there are serious problems with the ’science’ and ’scientific consensus’ of global warming.”

Agreed. Unfortunately this is not being covered in the news…

#25

I noticed that links seem to be disabled for some of us…yet ‘American Scottsman is somehow allowed to link to a site that is not only unscientific, it’s outright political.
It seems the comment moderator(s) allow links that promote IDEOLOGY, but not those that discuss science…

#24

Sorry frank, but that’s the most disingenuous description of what happened. The emails you describe weren’t just ‘questionable.’
They outlined the process by which the peer review process in climate ‘science’ should be subverted.
They discuss techniques used to manipulate data. They discuss DELETING original data so that they don’t have to turn it over to those who have submitted a FOIA request. And I haven’t even mention all the sordid details of what you’ll find in the leaked FORTRAN files…HELLO!
This is out and out fraud by the very people upon whom the UN IPCC relies to provide them with climate science. Thousands of climate scientists rely on the GISS/CRU data for their reports.
So no, this isn’t some minor, non-event. It strikes to the heart of the idea that there are serious problems with the ‘science’ and ‘scientific consensus’ of global warming.

#23

Children are born to this world every day. They are ALL the SAME. They are not born innocent, as the old saying says. They are born “UNPOLLUTED” by the Whole Worlds standards. ALLAH? Who asked about Allah??? Death to Polluting Children.

“Theres your sign:” MUHAMMAD! (copyright) Jeff Foxworthy… Currently, Jeff claims the “Creators Rights” to just his own material… ~Quietly~

#22

Because of a few questionable E-mails, some people are willing to write off the years of solid research and the findings of thousands of scientists world-wide who agree that man-made climate change is real. Surely, you can find better conspiracy theories than global warming is a commie plot.

#21

IN THE NAME OF ALLAH – THE BENEFICENT – THE MERCIFUL:SAY:HE,ALLAH IS ONE.ALLAH IS HE ON WHOM ALL DEPEND.HE BEGETS NOT,NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN.AND NONE IS LIKE HIM.[QUR’AN:112]FROM THE ALBUM ” WHAT’S GOIN ON,” SUNG BY MARVIN GAYE CAME OUT IN 1971 AND ASKED THE PEOPLE ” WHO RELLY CARES ” ? NOW WE THE PEOPLE ARE IN A PANIC MODE.ALLAH SAY’S IN THE QUR’AN: ” CORRUPTION HAS APPEARED ON LAND AND SEA BECAUSE OF WHAT MEN ‘S HANDS HAVE EARNED.” [QUR’AN:30:41].THE LOS ANGELES TIMES HAS JUST REPORTED HERE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA LATINO CHILDREN ARE DYING FROM PESTICIDES.” WHO REALLY CARES “? RACISM AND OPPRESSION ARE THE ROOTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE.” HAS THERE NOT BEEN OVER MAN A LONG PERIOD OF TIME WHEN HE DID NOT EXIST ? ” [QUR’AN:76:1].I CAN REMEMBER GROWING UP AND DURING THE SUMMER GOING TO PEOPLE’S HOUSES ALONG WITH OTHER LITTLE BOYS ALL OVER LOS ANGELES AND FROM YOUR HOUSE TO SOMEONE ELSES HOME AND HAVING BIG BROWN BAGS AND PICKING FRUIT FROM THE TREES ON THE GROUND.I HAVE NOT SEEN A GROUP OF CHILDREN PICK ANY FRUIT IN LOS ANGELES FROM THEIR YARD OR THEIR NEIGHBORS SINCE THE 70’S.HOW SCIENTIFIC DO YOU HAVE TO BE TO KNOW THE PLANEST IS IN CHAOS ? I REMEMBER WATCHING SCOTT PELLY YEARS AGO ON ” 60 MINUTES ” DO A STORY ON CLIMATE CHANGE.WHILE HE WAS REPORTING A PART OF THE GLACIER BROKE WHILE HE WAS REPORTING.” WHO REALLY CARES ? “THEN WATCH THEN FOR THE DAY THAT THE SKY WILL BRING FORTH A KIND OF SMOKE PLAINLY VISIBLE.” [QUR’AN:44:10].WHAT CAN WE EXPECT FROM AMERICA WHICH DROPPED TWO NUCLEAR BOMBS ON JAPAN AND CONTINUES TO DROP BOMBS ON SOVEREIGN NATIONS AS WELL AS USE UNMANNED PLANES WITH BOMBS KILLING MEN,WOMEN AND CHILDREN EVERDAY ? TAIF’TUL’ISLAM-P.O.BOX 338-COMPTON,CA.90223

#20

I believe we can see for ourselves that any agreement on this or any issue is going to be tough, by our posts! i am no Rocket scientist my wife is close but she’s busy working on an mba, but it is clear to me we are facing some serious climate change issues and Big biz is doing all they can to bankrupt this country in order for G-12 to take over. As far as the cool down I recall reading that our own co2 emmissions are masking the ultra violet rays ,causing some strang cooling effects at the same time as the planet warms? We are damned if we do and damned if we don’t it seems and this issue is as complex as our combined opinions? I agree to some degree with all of your opinions and respect them all! I am also happy I joined in on this blog tonight quite facinating, and a Great distraction from the TWO feet of snow covering my Earth home tonight!!

CC

#19

i don’t think this country is ready to deal with reality on any of the important issues until it effects their greedy little or big pocket books! i am a real- estate Broker that blew the whistle in 03 in Mn. on the creation of the bubble we are now facing all over the country, something I was accustumed to from my years in California & Colorado. No one wants to hear or deal with truths they only want to hear how rosey everything is. i fear for our children and our planet and believe it is to late at this point ever if we pulled together, which would take a miracle. I post this proudly from a Earth Home that my family and I have lived in for over a decade! We are not saints nor does it take major change to make monumental differences in the world. Sorry for the terrible grammar I lost everything to Drunk Drivers in 67 and went madd in the streets for 42 years!

the Madd Greek

#18

If the rest of the planets are warming and cooling
the same as we are, maybe, just maybe the Sun has
something to do with this climate change. When in
doubt, follow the money everytime you hear of a crisis !!! The current administration has a crisis
a month, has anybody noticed???

#17

Today I seen the documentary of the Bernie Madoff affair on PBS. I know by personal experience that central powers will miss the big picture like the SEC did; [In the congressional hearing to try the ponzi scheme drones…that failed to validate the roadmap of diligence that Mr. Marcopolis informed them of; The Senator screams, “You had your nose pushed into a pile of dung (Madoff) and…still could not catch the smell!” CONDENSED and EDITED.

History repeats itself, nothing is illegal or bad for you until you get caught or deathly sick. No one follows self evident rules anymore. That is the equivalent of passive-intelligent evolution.

Great spirits are violently opposed by atrocious
saviors that are prone to the “Peter Principle!”

Intelligence is evolving faster that the requirements to be current. What is new???
That is muted by 12 month bar regulations.

#16

By the way, NBC nightly news did an amazing story tonight showing stories of people killing each other for water and food, bodies of livestock everywhere in Kenya. all because of climate crisis. However, as I have been monitoring the Network news these last few days it appears that NBC is about the only National TV network ( I am including the NewsHour on PBS) covering Copenhagen and the effects of the climate crisis this week. Sad that GE is doing a better job covering the climate crisis and Copenhagen talks than PBS’s Newshour.
Thanks WorldFocus and NBC.

#15

I am in complete agreement with #9 Andrews’ comment.

#14

#1 should learn English himself. What is the difference between disinterested and uninterested? CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing and Arctic and Greenland ice is melting at a very rapid pace!

#13

I hope the COP09 talks utterly fail (like NASA Scientist James Hansen) because the emissions cuts are completely inadequate. What most industrialized countries are placing on the table as emissions cuts are worse than doing nothing at all because most people will think the climate crisis is being taken care of and all life on the planet will suffer greatly because of the lack of meaningful emissions cuts. What the U.S. is placing on the emissions cuts table will only cut GHG emissions 4 percent below 1990 levels (same as 17% cut in GHG emissions by 2020 at 2005 levels). They are not saying that in the media aye. I wonder why?
See http://www.climateactiontracker.org for a scientific score card and analysis of what is being offered as cuts to emissions by all countries.
RE: Release of Billion of Tons of Methane hydrates could exterminate us all.
How about the billions of tons of methane hydrates that may thaw and escape the world’s cold ocean bottoms when oceans reach critical temperature? How about the methane releases from the thaw of billions of tons of permafrost? Either one of these events may bring on a methane atmosphere that will make CO2 emissions almost meaningless. No one is talking about that aye. Google it and read for yourself.
As for you global warming deniers. I often wonder what corporation or front group you folks are getting paid by? Maybe it’s pretty lucrative to be a climate crisis troll these days? More later.
Energy Technician, Forester, Wildlife Biologist, ex-lumber worker
Have a nice global warming day. (:

#12

I think we will reach a consensus after billions have perished!!

#11

The world will reach a deal on climate change when climate change impairs the global economy’s ability to put food on the table of the middle class in the USA and Europe. Then we will demand action and complain that nobody warned us.

#10

In answer to that question, read Barbara Tuchman’s splendid account of the 1899 Intl. Peace Conference in the Hague, as described in ” The proud tower”.

#9

I can’t believe we are still talking about man-made global warming (MMGW)in light of the emails from the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University in the UK proving that MMGW is NOT taking place, that they are hiding or possibly even destroying any and all data that is contrary to the theory of MMGW. This should be a global scandal. In fact we are in a global cooling period and the data suggests a link between solar maximum and minimum activity and global warming and cooling. This is all a hoax to perpetuate the new communism, trying to succedd with “greenies” where the soviet union failed.

#8

er…Irishman….maybe take a course or two in English and then come back.

You might want to take a few climatology courses too…but not from Jones et al.

#7

I believe agreements will one day be made but unfortunately that day may come when it is too late for change to make a difference. The UN has a long history in tackling problems after the damage has been done, for example their history of human rights action.

#6

The Copenhagen climate summit is doomed to failure because it requires money to be spent and taxes to be raised. A much more practical solution is one I have been promoting for over 30 years: Divert a portion of the bloated US defense budget into building a solar power station on the moon, which in 10 years could beam the electrical equivalent of 3 billion barrelsof oil/year on a 24/7 basis to the earth using microwaves. This diversion would cost zero additional tax dollars, since the funds are being wasted on useless weapon systems unsuitable to the War on Terror, and the funds would go to the same people getting them now, so there would be no layoffs or life style changes, except in the oil rich countries, supplying funds for the terrorists.

#5

The world will only achieve a deal on climate change when it recognizes the unity of mankind, and that, according to the Baha’i Writings, “the earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.” This is a spiritual problem as well as a material problem. We must also recognize that “the poor in your midst are My trust; guard ye My trust.”

#4

I have an MS in chemistry and teach chemistry

Global warming is true and getting worste

The oceans use to absorb CO2 but are getting sarurated

It is PAST fixable

#3

The United States has given more of its blood and treasure than any other country to raise the standard of living of the rest of the world’s poor and yet we are villified,resented and attacked for everything and I’m sick of it. What global warming ? Even the so called “experts” fail to agree there is real global warming. Noone denies there are cycles and patterns but this global warming scam is just one more strategy to drag this country down to third world levels , since it seems imposible to raise the rest of the world to our level . Will the rest of the world be satisfied when they have bankrupted this country by these policies . The UN would already be bankrupt if the U S pulled its financial support and for them to make demands of any kind for global climate chage or anything else is a waste . They are redundant and cannot stand on their own. They have no power and should not have but that fact alone makes them crazy because they crave power and thrive on self importance

#2

We’ll never get a meaningful treaty unless the rich nations get serious and deal fairly. It almost looks like they set this conference up to fail by offering a deal they knew the developing countries wouldn’t accept. As usual, self-interest seems to be guiding the flow of events. I guess the first step toward real international agreement on carbon emissions is to establish a working green energy industry in the west and China, and then invest in spreading that technology into the developing world.

#1

The key issue is “the ability to enforce”. Oh really, Mr Barrett. Good luck on that one.

The key issue is the ability to provide substantive proof that the primary cause of global warming is man made. And on that point,lets just say that I am sceptical.

Continue on with your drawn out tears and gnashing about the evils of man. I am totally disinterested at this point.

Copenhagen is a massive hypocritical joke.

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