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March 20, 2009
Week in review: Messages to Iran and Gaza civilians

Gideon Rose of Foreign Affairs magazine and Carla Robbins, deputy editorial page editor of The New York Times, join Martin Savidge to discuss the week’s top stories: Messages to Iran from Israel and the United States, Israeli soldiers who may have killed civilians in the Gaza war and the Obama administration’s consideration of a plan to greatly increase the numbers of Afghan soldiers and police.

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Oh excuse me Boris, I guess you are the only one whom can use a quote from the scripture without being accused of using “tricky tactics” and making this a bible discussion ???

Please Boris, spare me your own brand of “tricky tactics”, biblical insinuations and hypocrisy.

Genesis 12:3: “I will bless those who bless You, and I will curse who curses You” was your quote Boris.

Followed by “Islam is spreading all over the World, it’s absolute True!!

Just remember Boris, “And HE (God) will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight”, not Islam or Israel’s F-16, helicopters, and tanks.


To JP: Please, stop using tricky tactics: You are turning discussion to a Bible discussion, but this is about Arab-Israeli conflict. What was a “nonsense” I’ve posted, that: Arabs (150m.p.) initiated 3 wars and many conflicts against Israel (5m.p.) since 1948 and every time were badly Beaten, it’s absolute True!! Hamas is terrorist organization and hiding behind civilians, it’s absolute True!! Arabs conquer N. Africa, Egypt, Middle East and part of Asia, it’s absolute True!! Islam is spreading all over the World, it’s absolute True!! At least, you make one “exception of Armenian Genocide”, thanks!


Yeah Boris, If your going to quote Scripture and make application, then do so correctly.

First, Genesis 12:3 which you have partially quoted to imply that the “you” here is the nation of ancient Israel, is not.

Verses 1 indicates that the Creator was speaking to A’bram or Abraham when he said

3 “And I will bless those who bless YOU (A’bram and not Israel since the nation did not exist yet), and him that calls down evil upon YOU (A’bram) I shall curse…

So your application of this Scripture is, well Boris, plain wrong.

Secondly, a fact which seems to slip your notice Boris, is that God’s agreement or covenant with the Israelite nation, for continued favor, blessing and the promise land was conditional.

God would be willing to uphold His end of the covenant to “time indefinite” if they, the Isrealites upheld theirs.

Please note the conditions the Creator stated were necessary for the Israelite nation.

They were stated by God the Creator to King Solomon after he completed the building of God’s Temple in Jerusalem at 1 Kings 9:6

“If YOU yourselves and YOUR sons should definitely turn back from following me and not keep my commandments and my statutes that I have put before YOU men, and YOU actually go and serve other gods and bow down to them, 7 I will also cut Israel off from upon the surface of the ground that I have given to them; and the house that I have sanctified to my name I shall throw away from before me, and Israel will indeed become a proverbial saying and a taunt among all the peoples. 8 And this house itself will become heaps of ruins. Everyone passing by it will stare in amazement …”

Fast forward to the arrival of Christ Jesus the Messiah, whom was not only rejected by the Jews as God’s Son and the Messiah, but also put to death at the behest of the Jews of his day.

Notice Jesus words :

Matthew 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her,—how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But YOU people did not want it. 38 Look! your HOUSE (the Temple of God) is abandoned to YOU.”

Matthew 21:43 “This is why I say to YOU (Israel), The kingdom of God will be taken from YOU (Israel) and be given to a nation producing its fruits”

And lastly Boris, tale note of Christ Jesus words at Luke 19 : 41 “And when he got nearby, he viewed the city and wept over it, 42 saying: “If you, even you, had discerned in this day the things having to do with peace—but now they have been hid from your eyes. 43 Because the days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification with pointed stakes and will encircle you and distress you from every side, 44 and they will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected.”

The fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy in Luke was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. by the Romans. While there may be a city called Jerusalem, the actual temple site sits under a Mosque and is in ruin.

And that, Boris, makes the rest of your post nonsence with the exception of the Armenian Genocide.

Both sides are “baby killers”, so are those who support them and those who even turn a blind eye !!!


Genesis 12:3: “I will bless those who bless You, and I will curse who curses You”
After armies of Arab countries (150 millions p.) were defeated in 1948, 1967and 1972 wars by Israel (5 million p.). Arabs change tactics from Convention war to Guerrilla war. First, Palestinians get role as a small helpless nation fighting for freedom against “brutal Israeli aggressor”. Second, coward trick of that tactics is hiding inside or behind civilian population. In this kind of war, Hamas (Arabs) does not need to defeat Israel militarily to win a big victory. In fact, Hamas knows that in some ways, dead Palestinians serve their purposes even better than dead Israelis! The real baby killers are Hamas and his supporters!! The real Colonial nation is Arab nation; they conquer whole N. Africa, Egypt, and Meddle East. Armenian Genocide is best illustration of atrocity. But, worst thing is that they continue spreading Islam.
“Islam will dominate the World” –is not just empty words.


Yeah Boris, wishful thinking if you think that petitions will end hostilities.

Here’s a little news flash, no petition, no cease fire, nor no pease and security treaty will ever accomplish what is impossible for the “brutal baby killer” of either side here in this conflict or any other of man’s abilities to ever reach a sustainable agreement on.

There is a partial quote on a building in New York City which says “they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation. Neither shall they learn war anymore”.

This partial quote is taken from Isaiah 2:4. The beginning and what is omitted is the following, And HE (God) will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples.

When that happens not only will there be peace in the Middle East, but also world wide because the Creator will see to it that all the “brutal baby killers’ and all mankind’s governments will be eliminated.

Compare 1 Corinthians 15:24

And Michael B the fringe elements in control of Israel aren’t the political parties, it’s the rabbis.


To Alex, Kevin Lee, Sanda Kopponen, David Hoffman, JP, and Susan Walsh: Hamas=Iran+Syria still firing rockets on Israel. In January 2009 nobody warns them that Israeli army is “brutal baby killers” that they have F-16, helicopters, tanks and they’ll use it, but now they know this!! If you want to save lives of Palestinians at least send petition to Arab League or ask Al Jesira talk to Hamas bosses in Iran and Syria.


The real issue here is the conflict as a whole, debating tactics and specific incidents while valid is an exercise in futility. Both sides have plenty of blood and blame on their hands. The problem is that with fringe elements in control of Israel
(yes Netanyahu is fringe) and Gaza (yes they are fringe as well) the prospects for peace are grim. Hopefully the populations of Israel and the Palestinian territories will reject the politics of fear and vote out the opponents of peace,and put in power more moderate elements (it would be helpful if it happened at the same time) otherwise we will never escape this cycle of conflict. The hard decisions on settlements,the right of return and Jerusalem will never be solved with the current leadership. The conversation should be devoted to this end, the extremes on either side will never win.


Sandra: I agree Martin is just a continuation of the old, he worked at CNN, and MCNBC before and understands that his salary is at risk if he says otherwise and if he speaks against Israel. I hope as many Americans do that people like Martin who are very well accomplished and can find jobs in many places, speak truth to power and favor integrity over their salaries. Also I would like to see that Neal Shapiro the founder of Worldfocus, put his Jewishness aside and begin inviting people with integrity to the show and no more establishment like Hass, Eisner, Rose, and Robbins. We all know the role of NYTimes in the war in Iraq and in the Israeli Palestinian conflict. All we have to look at is Ethan Bonner’s very baised articles and the editorial page staff who allow lies about the Palestinians to be printed and reprinted again. Most of your gusts have caused us many of the problems we live in right now. Looking at Foreign Affairs and Hass’s writings one can tell where the two stand on most issues that need America’s leadership not caving to business and the military Industrial Complex. Mr. Rose is not good and has to go


In my previous comment, lamenting Savidge’s phrasing that Israeli soldiers “may have” killed civilians, I forgot to remind people that the Isreali military bombed UN marked sanctuary in which 100s of Palestinian children and families were seeking refuge. This is a fact. The UN officials carefully screened all refugees there, and the Israeli military was well aware that it was a UN sanctuary when they bombed.


To the Russian Boy (Boris) and JGE (Just Got Educated) your blogs speak volumes of who you are. Both of you are talking about myths and leaving the truth. You too connecting Iran and many people to the Palestinians to justify ethnic cleansing. Keep defending the only apartheid state on earth and you have Gideon helping you. I hope that Worldfocus begins to redefine its mission by bringing enlightened people to the show and liberate itself from sponsors who would like to have another CNN, or Fox. I watch Worldfocus to learn and have a better idea about the globe, but if people like Gideon will be the face of your program I can see CNN, or Fox and get the same analysis


I thought it is interesting how Gideon Rose tried to excuse the IDF’s actions of killing civilians by saying,

“…let’s not forget that the people the Israelis were trying to go after in Gaza regularly and routinely blow up civilians deliberately as the target of their actions, so it’s not like the Israelis were being worse than the people they were attacking”

No Gideon not “worse”, just as bad !!!

When bombing and ground invasions involve the “deliberately” kill of civilians and the destruction of their property as policy, it’s just as bad Gideon !!!

Get it ???


To Alex: I just posted what happen 4 years ago May 4, 2004 near Gaza. Tell me how you describe that “heroic” attack and how you would respond??


After Iran had the succesful international conference to deny the Holocaust, and to recoup their losses in HezbollaLebanon and HamasGazan and to make Susan and DisHonest (DH) see the distorted truth they are convening a new international court, of all places Teheran:

March 4, 2009, 12:16 pm
Iran Plans War Crimes Trials for Israelis
By Robert Mackey
Behrouz Mehri/Agence France-Presse — Getty ImagesIranian officials at the opening of a conference on Palestine on Wednesday in Tehran. From left, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (shorty), supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Ayatollah Mahmoud Shahroudi, head of the judiciary, and Ali Larijani, speaker of the parliament.
Main witnesses are the Hamas leaders residents of Damascus, Syria.

Poor Palestinians, not only they are kept to lower standards, but they are exploited by their masters.


May 4, 2004, near Gaza:
After spraying the station wagon with bullets, the Palestinian terrorists walked up to the 4 terrified little girls and shot each one of them twice in the head. The 8-month-old pregnant mother was shot in her belly at point blank range as she tried to cover her children.
Palestinian celebrates and call killing “heroic”. Israel investigates solders that fight with terrorist thugs. This is difference.
G..d have seen everything and now Palestinian terrorists get His Judgment.


Why is Martin Savidge so careful to say that Israeli soldiers “may have” killed Palestinian civilians. Isn’t it common knowledge that it was a massacre? Gideon Rose quaintly says that it’s to be expected to have “collateral damage” when war is waged in a heavily populated area, such as Gaza. As Noam Chomsky says, “collateral damage” is the term the media uses when the “enemy” is killed, yet when Israeli’s are killed they’re Israelis, not “collateral damage”. What a creepy term! The Palestinian civilians that the Israeli soldiers shot dead at close range and bombed were not terrorists. The Israeli military is brainwashed as is much of the Israeli public to see Palestinians as less than human.


In keeping with the format of the show– which is after all to present foreign points of view on world events–WorldFocus last night interviewed Gideon Rose, who nicely gave us the typical Tel Aviv propaganda bilge. Poor Israel. Such bias against it. The world is outraged when Israeli soldiers kill a couple hundred Palestinian kids. Or write Death To Arabs on Gaza walls. Big deal! And what about two or maybe even three Israeli citizens murdered by Hamas rockets over the past dozen years? Victims can’t be war criminals, by definition, and if you think otherwise you’re an anti-Semite, even if you happen to be Jewish.
Anyway, it’s nice to hear yet again the Israeli prospective, for those of us dumb enough to have missed it the few million times it has been mouthed by American media, but why does it have to marquerade as a US view?


JGE: (Just Got Educated) Carla never said that Israel is held to higher standers, she said that democracies are held to higher standers and since Israel define itself as a democracy then it should be held to higher standers. This prompted Gideon, who should never be called again for that round table discussion because he is more loyal to his ethnicity(Jewish) than his profession (an objective analyst), began talking about standers. Now the article that I posted on the Web shows that the Israeli army is just a racist army and is there to kill not to defend itself. There a huge difference between killing for fun and just to kill, what you and your country have been doing to the Palestinians for the last 60 years, and self defense. I would love to read your next spin.


JGE: I never said that Hamas is occupying Gaza. What I said is that Israel is responsible for all the territories and the people under occupation. I would like to volunteer for Gaza, but I am afraid that your (moral army) will kill me the way they killed Rachel Couri; a brave American Women who was crushed by a bulldozer and the killer never got punished. Then your cousin Gideon Rose will be saying that Susan Walsh had no business being in front of a bulldozer. The way he does like to talk about Israeli war crimes. Many war crimes have been committed in your country and you talk about the other, the sheer fact that you are comparing yourself to Hamas and Hezboallh tells a great about your values.


Look for Illan Pappe’ demands to investigate the attrocities of Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon. Brilliant defender of the truth and other serendepities.


Carla Robbins said: “Israel is held to higher standards”
It means that the moslems and Palestinians are held to lower standards.
Hamas and Hezbollah have a free hand to kill their own civilians.
No wonder their rulers hold the Palestinians in utter misery.


Susan Walsh:

You are right. Hamas is an occupaying force in Gaza. And they should be investigated for the killings of their own civilians. The International Organization AC is now going to undertake such investigation, hope they are not blown up by “Palestinian Volunteers”. Rumor has it that Susan and DisHonest (DH) will be volunteering for the Gaza investigation.


There is good news. The International Organization AC will be investigating crimes commited by Hamas against their own civilians in Gaza. It is the first such move to hold Arabs to higher standards. They will even investigate why they use their own civilians to blow up themselves against fellow civilians. Everybody is surprised that moslems are now held to the same standards as other humans. Hope it will help to lift the Palestinians from their misseries.


I hope Giodn will read this

This copy is for your personal, noncommercial use only. You can order presentation-ready copies for distribution to your colleagues, clients or customers here or use the “Reprints” tool that appears next to any article. Visit for samples and additional information. Order a reprint of this article now.


March 21, 2009
More Allegations Surface in Israeli Accounts of Gaza War
JERUSALEM — An Israeli newspaper gave a fuller account on Friday of testimonies by soldiers alleging loose rules of engagement in Israel’s war in Gaza, which they said led to civilian deaths and wanton property destruction. One soldier asserted that extremist rabbis had told troops they were fighting a holy war.

The soldier was quoted as saying that the rabbis had “brought in a lot of booklets and articles,” adding, “their message was very clear: We are the Jewish people, we came to this land by a miracle. God brought us back to this land, and now we need to fight to expel the non-Jews who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land.”

He said that as a commander, he had tried to explain to his men that “not everyone who is in Gaza is Hamas,” and that “this war was not a war for the sanctification of the holy name, but rather one to stop the Qassam rockets.”

The account, in the left-leaning Haaretz newspaper, expanded on shorter excerpts printed Thursday in Haaretz and Maariv, a center-right newspaper, and came from a taped conversation among Gaza war veterans at an institute that prepares soldiers before their service. After the materials were published, the military advocate general began an investigation into the allegations.

The director of the institute where the discussion occurred, Dany Zamir, published the accounts in his newsletter and leaked them to the newspapers to draw attention to what he considered to be troubling revelations. Mr. Zamir is known to be on the left of Israel’s political spectrum.

He is quoted in the excerpts as saying to the soldiers who spoke: “I think it would be important for parents to sit here and hear this discussion. I think it would be an instructive discussion, and also very dismaying and depressing. You are describing an army with very low norms of value, that’s the truth.”

Earlier excerpts included an account of the killing of an elderly woman by a sharpshooter and the killing of a woman and two children by another sniper.

The testimonies published Friday also spoke of the ease with which some houses were damaged.

Another soldier said: “We got an order one day — all of the equipment, all of the furniture, just clean out the whole house. We threw everything, everything out of the windows to make room. The entire contents of the house went flying out the windows.”

The soldier also alleged that when entering buildings, “we were supposed to go up floor by floor, and any person we identified, we were supposed to shoot. I initially asked myself, where is the logic in this?”

“From above they said it was permissible, because anyone who remained in the sector and inside Gaza City was in effect condemned, a terrorist, because they hadn’t fled. I didn’t really understand. On one hand they don’t really have anywhere to flee to, but on the other hand they’re telling us they hadn’t fled so it’s their fault.”

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Dorn: are you still slpeeing? do you live in our world? Can you please read any Israeli newspaper so you know, all your blog is worthless.


I think Gidon’s argument on Gaza was missing the integrity and the objectivity a scholar needs. He is more loyal to his ethnicity (Jewish) than to his profession. Someone with his knowledge should know that Israel is an occupying force and thus legally responsible for the protection of all Palestinians under occupation. All the 1967 territories are occupied land and according to the Geneva Conventions all of the citizens and the land must be in the hand of the occupier as a trust and must not be altered or changed. For Gidon to brush a side war crimes committed in Gaza and to begin comparing resisting occupation to intentionally killing civilians is appalling. In addition, to demand that the Palestinians open investigations and all those who were killed are soldiers is simply dreadful and inexcusable. Here we have soldiers stating very clearly that they have killed civilians and were told “not to worry about it.” Let us go beyond the media spin and once in our life time hold Israel responsible for its actions


Dear World Focus,

Contrary to Dorn L, I am disgusted by Gideon Rose’s refusal to process and understand what the Israeli soldiers have said about their conduct in Gaza. It isn’t Al Jazeera only that reported this story. Ha’aretz among many others told it also, So much was left out when Mr Rose laughed off the soldiers’ story. He essentially equated of the violent response of some Palestinians to their dispossession, occupation and siege with the recent vicious Israeli attack on impoverished civilians in Gaza. Any attack on noncombatants and innocent bystanders is wrong, and there is a lot more to the Gaza story and it’s larger context. World Focus needs to go deeper into the facts and the issues, deeper than a 30-minute program allows. And Mr. Rose is no help at all.


US pro Israeli background In USA and Iranian pro Arab´s background in Iran(both in minority) think that country belongs to them and they have absolute rights(by economic power) and try to confront Jews and Muslim against each other .


I think with change in Obama´s administration media has to change its outcome simultaneously.


Dear World Focus,

How come World Focus always selects items that slant against Israel but never runs such
slanted material on far more repressive neighbors? On Thursday 19 March you had a brief
report about Israeli soldiers’ alleged actions in Gaza. It was followed by a puff piece
on Oprah and the Arab world. As usual bad Israelis, good personable Arabs.

Tonight, Friday 20 March, was far worse. You ran a slanted Al Jazeera report on the
alleged actions of Israeli soldiers in Gaza. It was followed by a panel discussion with
Carla Robbins and Gideon Rose, which to some extent mollified the Al Jazeera report – at
least they pointed out the double standard towards Israel.

Yet World Focus itself has a major double standard. Tonight you reported on opening
relations with Iran. There was not a peep about Iran’s virulent policies: all of its
leading politicians have called for the destruction of Israel, calling Israel a “cancer”,
talking of it being destroyed by a single atomic bomb. You would not know a word about
its repressive policies, its actions against Bahais, Arab minorities, etc. You would not
know about its repression at home.

Indeed, World Focus seems to take every negative story in Israel and magnify it. You
never report issues that reveal the nature of its enemies: such as leading Fatah member
Muhammad Dahlan saying Fatah will never recognize Israel’s right to exist and
recommitting to the step by step policy of destruction advocated by Muhammad Dahlan. You
never report the incitement, the indoctrination across the Arab world – quite the
opposite, reports like that on Oprah suggest the opposite, and underplayed the hold of
propaganda stations like Al Jazeera.

World Focus never reports the corruption within the Palestinian Authority, nor Hamas, nor
Jordan. It has failed to focus on Darfur and the Arab League’s protection of the Sudanese
regime, let alone the support of Hamas and Hezbollah for Sudan. World Focus doesn’t cover
the rockets that continue to fly into Israel.

On Gaza, you accept Al Jazeera reports but don’t rebut them by showing post-war Israeli
analyses proving that Hamas’ casualty count is a myth, especially as regards civilian
casualties. If you are going to cover allegations against Israel in such detail, why
don’t you cover Hamas’ use of civilian shields, of ambulances to transport militants, of
people killed by Hamas’ own fire, of Egypt’s refusl to allow Gazans into Egypt during the

Above all, while constantly personalizing Arabs with sympathetic stories, you
consistently dehumanize Israelis. You take the most fringe elements of Israeli society
that are hostile to Israel, and use their claims to deligitimize the country. You never
tell the tragic story of Jews from Arab countries.

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