February 26, 2009
Poor white South Africans blame reverse discrimination
To some extent, the economic playing field has been leveled since the end of apartheid 15 years ago. But that has had another impact — white poverty has doubled since 1994.
Worldfocus special correspondent Martin Seemungal explores the rising poverty in South Africa’s white community.
55 comments
Let me put this simple. Affirmative Action doesn’t work. It doesn’t help create equality since the skills scarcity if highest in the targetted racial groups, resulting in the rare qualified individuals being able to demand huge salaries, which means that companies cut costs by employing less people to compensate. This leads to unemployment, which leads to more poverty, not less. Poverty and unemployment lead to crime and disease, both of which place an increased strain on infrastructure (police, health services, etc) while simulataneously narrowing the tax base that supports the infrastructure. Growing crime in turn impairs economic growth while the population still grows creating a spiral of negative growth. Inequality in services, employment, pay, etc grows, and the effects of this can already be clearly seen in South Africa.
Affirmative Action should not be seen as a racial issue, it’s not, it’s an economic issue, and it’s killing the country’s economy and creating more unfairness and inequality than ever existed in Apartheid.
Affirmative action is demonstrably not achieving it’s goals; it’s broken and is breaking the country, and any sensible person can see this and should put aside issues of race in favour of pursuing a policy that will address the core issues of job creation, economic growth and equality, rather than continuing down the wrong path of Affirmative action which just stifles economic growth, increases unemployment, and exacerbates inequality.
Ha ha…the white populations poverty in South Africa doubled from like 20 people to 40!? Get a grip.
ORC Worldwide report:
Despite impressive strides by affirmative action, which has been in place since 1994, whites still hold most of the best jobs in the private sector and own most of the assets – including 80 percent of the country’s farmland and more than 65 percent of the equity on the Johannesburg Securities Exchange (JSE) (blacks own less than 5%). According to a recent article in South Africa’s Business Report, the top 40 companies listed on the JSE had in aggregate 601 directors, only 91 of them black… But, since most of these companies have the majority or at least a significant portion of their assets, sales, and income streams emanating from their South African operations, the fact that at these companies black directors total just 15 percent has raised some eyebrows. In addition, 2001 census data from South Africa shows that blacks made up 76.7 percent of South Africa’s population.
Seriously, get a grip…
Also, you are one sad human being
I second Shalestra’s motion - DEATH BY STARVATION for all corrupt politicians who, when all is said and done, are the CORE of the problem.
It is true that whites are not sidelined, but please understand that I am not stating this arguement concerning AA and BEE, out of concern for white poverty only. The current system of BEE and AA also affects racial groups in South Africa NOT considered to be black. Coloured and Indian, and other racial groups NOT black are also feeling the grunt of the situation. Your point of the superior education level garnered by white South Africans are indeed real due to the advantages of having access to superior educational structures. What I find wrong is that South Africa is simply discarding that knowledge for the sake of equality instead of harnessing its power. Whether these so-called knowledgeables from the previous regime are still racist or not should not not matter. I believe that we have enough constitutional punishments in place if someone steps out of line and acts racist. Knowledge and experience has no colour lines and it should be used nonetheless. It is presumptive and unfair to assume that all white South Africans from the previous regime are racist. My proposal for the past would have been a paralel implimentation of skills to ensure that the skill level of that time would not have declined purely for the sake of equality. Experience is sometimes more valuable than knowledge and a balance between the two should also be maintained.
I see references to race in almost every post on this list, and I would consider this racist.
The problem here is simple as the speaker at the end of the video points out. The struggle wasn’t about race, it was about fighting injustice and inequality.
Despite this the gini coefficient of South Africa (a measure of the level of inequality in the distribution of resources) has worsened since the end of apartheid, indicating an increase in injustice and inequality. The government’s solutions are wrong-headed, focusing on shifting around WHO is in poverty, rather than actually tackling the problem of poverty and inequality in a coherent fashion. What’s worse is the complete dishonesty of their approach. How is it that year on year the government’s official unemployment statistics are lower and lower, even during a global recession. It doesn’t take a statistician or a genius to spot that it’s a tissue of lies, even before you examine the NGO’s figures which show that unemployment is on the rise.
In short the S.A. government isn’t trying to bake a biggger economic cake so that everyone can have a bite, instead they’re just taking the same size cake and cutting it up differently. Even at the official 25% unemployment (or the unofficial 40% unemployment rate) if every White person in the country was unemployed (9.2% of the population) that would still leave another approximately 16~31% employment to spread amongst non-Whites. BEE/AA, etc aren’t solutions, they’re camoflague aimed at detracting attention from the government’s complete lack of action on the issue of poverty alleviation. Meanwhile government corruption is a huge problem, with “previously disadvantaged” politicians becoming millionaires overnight solely due to their political connections. Malema is a good example of someone who is completely unqualified and incompetent, yet somehow has managed to amass a huge amount of money in a short time.
The problem here isn’t racial, it’s an economic problem exacerbated and confused by racist politics that try to obfuscate the real issues, and what’s depressing is just how many people are falling for it.
The solution is simple. Vote for whichever party you feel has the morals and political will to discard race as an element in South African economics, and instead focuses on creating as many sustainable jobs as possible and on implementing a “maximum wage” cap to match the minimum wage legislation to ensure a more equal distribution of resources. No-one wants to see hungry babies, no matter what their skin colour, except the current politicians who don’t care, because the $1 a day that it would take to feed those babies is going into their back pockets, which is sickening an immoral. If I had my way the penalty for corruption or misleading the public that voted you into office would be death by starvation, the same fate they so thoughtlessly and callously condemn others to.
Checked your comment, but still there’s a sticking point on what is racism and what is addressing past imbalances. Whites are not completely out of the job market. Yes many have been sidelined, but the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of whites do have jobs. Maybe not jobs that they wanted or are necessarily qualified for, but jobs nevertheless. U see, apartheid skewed things so much that, if all the jobs went to “the most qualified” candidates, most would go to whites. And that is a direct result of apartheid. I did concede that corruption is a problem and I don’t agree with the fact that Malema gets these big contracts as a result of his position in the ANC. What I am arguing for here is the principle and I think on that one we do concur, right?
I hear you about being BEE compliant, I really do, but to say that you cannot do business with the government on equal footing because of an inadequate BEE standing is, for lack of better wording, racist. I take the example of ANC youth leader Julius Malema. He sits on the board of numerous BEE companies and procures government contracts left and right, evn though it has been shown that 75% of his tenders have not shown the best budget nor product/services. I also believe in BEE, and i think that it is a good practise to correct economic balance, but it simply must be monitored fairly. What I got to before about the required quotas in companies in order to procure `financial growth`, was simply a case of what is good for the goose, is good for the gander. Racism is a two way street, and the hinderance of any race/culture to fairly compete for services or jobs is indeed that. Thus I don`t have a problem with Affirmative action, but the concept of Affirmative action is to ensure appropriate balances between all racial/culture groups and not to simply give advantages to a specific racial group. This is what apartheid was, I have heard politicians quote apartheid as being total white affirmative action. Currently, most BEE practises are indeed heading that way. Do not misunderstand me, as this is not an absolute number but the majority of BEE practises are being implimented unfairly.
Ok Jo, I hear you. I do disagree however with the notion that white civil servants, teachers and police were forced to take ‘voluntary’ retrenchment packages. When any government changes, irrespective of race, the civil service changes along with it. When I move into the offices, I bring my people with me, so to speak. And with regards to the police (and armed forces), the problems of racism still persist therein. Numbers of superior white police officers and commanders in the armed forces are still disproportionally high. When it comes to BEE compliant companies, no company in South Africa is forced to be AA compliant. As the number one player in the economy, government simply says that if a company wants to procure state contracts, then it has to be BEE compliant. You can have your all white company but don’t expect to do business with the government. I think you will agree that this is fair practice. Yes, it is true that the wealth gap is widening and it is no longer based along racial lines. But this is the case everywhere you go in the world. Take China for instance. This country has been seeing unprecedented levels of growth for the past decade or so. But in 2009, according to a news report I read, the gap between the richest and the poorest Chinese widened even further than the previous years. Few countries are the exception to this rule. That is just a problem with the capitalist system in its current form. Look at what happened in America. The big banks went and virtually destroyed the world economy and in the process even ran themselves aground. Then who has to foot the bill for this reckless mismanagement? The taxpayer. On top of all that, the executives of these banks went and paid themselves billions in bonuses over and above their already bloated salaries. Yes there is corruption in South African government but the principle of AA is sound. Obviously it cannot continue indefinitely. At some point we have to stop and say, “Ok, look. We are now at a point where we can say that the proportion of management that is black is somewhat representative of the demographic composition of the South African population in general and therefore we can now scrap AA as official government policy and allow free and open competition on the labour market.” But that point is still a long way off because the more white business continues to resist change, the longer it will take for us to reach that point.
I agree with Bra Shakes on some of the aspects mentioned in his comment. However, I thought it was slightly bad judgement assuming that these white South Africans are unskilled and uneducated, and hence should be unemployed. These so-called uneducated workers come from a different time in our history when university education wasn`t accessible even to advantaged white South Africans. The `Appie` system, or apprenticeship system ensured that the working class was skilled by mentors or peers in the field and thus they gained their skills for jobs. Uneducated maybe, but certainly not unskilled. It was a time when many South Africans, black, white, etc, had to leave school at 16, after grade 10, to contribute to their families or to etch out an existence of their own. I agree with Bra Shakes that the white South Africans had a distinct advantage when it came to the jobsearch, but to simply retrench many skilled and experienced workers for the sake of affirmative action is maybe an action not thought through thoroughly enough. Our education and public policing system is a prime example of this. By encouraging white teachers and police officers to take retrenchment packages without considering that there were not enough skilled and educated replacements, the powers that be caused an instability that still remains to this day. With the sudden outflow of large amounts of capital to pay out said retrenchment packages, they not only got rid of valuable experienced mentors but also created a vacuum where funds were not available to make the aforementioned jobs attractive for prospective recruits. With the lack of teachers and police officers after the shift, both jobs gained unsatisfactory work environments for those employed at that time and filtered through a reputation that keeps those positions from becoming saturated and hence a chronic shortage will remain. It is an unfortunate ripple effect that should be stopped but might not have a solution at this time. I also don`t agree with the concept of taking away jobs and giving it to others because they were previously disadvantaged. Even though this is fair in terms of affirmative action, one cannot expect that a feeling of resentment will not ensue. Resentment begets hatred begets vengeance begets more ill feelings and then we are right back at the start. Why the apartheid status quo will never return is not a question of South African healing but perhaps a situation of being outnumbered at voting time. The government wants to ensure that affirmative action is implimented properly, this is my belief, but many hateful officials in company decision making positions might be keeping this from happening. This is the dreadful circle I am referring to. White companies are forced to maintain this AA balance, they have to maintain an integrated face while BEE companies have no such noose around their necks. No white quota to be met within their midst. Is this fair? Impossible to say, but the system indeed needs to be looked at and adequate monitoring system needs to be enforced to ensure that it isn`t manipulated to benefit the few. Emotional decision making in a power position must be eliminated and a logical informed position must be maintained. As unfortunate as it is that large groups of South African people were not allowed the proper educational opportunities, it has to be said that growth should not suffer due to this. Partial implimentation instead of the instantaneous political saving face implimentation should have been followed, ensuring that growth is maintained but also that the adequate amount of mentors were maintained to pass on valuable experience to the next generation. It will take time for any balance to be restored in South Africa if ever. What this video should have inspired people to do was not to simply critisize its content and vent their emotional frustration but to leave the page with the motivation to become informed about the situation and then make commentary. Whilst affirmative action is rectifying many injustices, one has to ask why the unemployment rate amongst all cultural groups in South Africa are still rising and moreover so, why the economic gap between upper class and middle class are also widening. Fatcats are getting fatter and the workforce is getting poorer, irrespective of colour.
Most of the people in this comment thread are either idiots who can’t even write (and therefore by default, speak) English or are misinformed, bigoted racists. South Africa is not where it is because whites made it like that. Many people like to argue that developed countries are developed because they used slave labour and colonisation to develop their countries. That may be true, but it does not necessarily follow that if they hadn’t they wouldn’t be developed. People should also stop saying that things were better in the days of apartheid because they were not, at least for the black majority. And some are saying that South Africa is on the brink of civil war. What utter rubbish. The fact is that apartheid denied blacks many opportunities for development. Affirmative action is just a way (not perfect I might add) of addressing these past injustices. And yes, all whites benefitted from apartheid. No white person can say that they have not. That is just a fallacy. That having been said, I am not justifying the fact that there are poor whites now in South Africa. I am merely saying that in a system where the colour of your skin guaranteed you at least a decent roof over your head no matter what your level of education or the skills you possessed, when such a system is repealed, the distortions of it are exposed in this manner. The poor whites in this video are no different from most blacks in South Africa, i.e. unskilled and uneducated. That is just the nature of the system, that if you are in that position, no matter what the colour of your skin is, you are likely to be disadvantaged. The point I am trying to get at here is this, that the injustices of the past have to be corrected and in doing so some people (those who were previously advantaged) will be disadvantaged. What needs to happen is that the playing fields need to be levelled so that we can all compete on an equal footing and those that cannot have to be taken care of by the government. How is this to be done? By providing equal educational and skilling opportunities for everyone. In this way, we will all be in a position to contribute meaningfully to a prosperous new South Africa in which the colour of your skin no longer matters. This however will take time.
I was disheartened by this video. I have read many of these comments and felt very sad about many of them. I grew up during apartheid, saw my childhood during apartheid and my teenage years during the liberation and subsequent democracy. I am indeed of the opinion that Madiba should have had another 10 years in office. On the plight of the poor in South Africa, I think the African woman said it best. She was shocked to see it because she was used to seeing white South Africans in comfortable positions and black South Africans in impoversihed ones. Many of the commentators have commented on this and I believe that many of you misunderstood her sympathy. Her sympathy was for the white South Africans that are now newly impoverished and she said that black South Africans were used to it. That is what shocked her initially I think, but what shocked her more was the addition of impoverished people. She was used to black South Africans being poor, but had hope that things would get better. Now poor white South Africans are being added to the already poor black majority. This, in my belief, is what is shocking. It shows a gradual decline in the overall population relating to socio-economic status. I will not perceive to know how to change this, nor will attempt to criticise any specific party for blame. I can only say that it is up the South African population, be it black, white, indian, coloured, etc. to make a change in South Africa. They need to forget about the past and start thinking of each other rather than themselves. i believe, unfortunately, that South Africa will only trulybecome a unified nation once the advantaged of Apartheid South Africa and the disadvantaged of Apartheid South Africa have passed on, and the children of democratic South Africa, who have grown up together, had school lunches together, had played on the same sportsteam, and who have studied together run this beautiful country. I will not judge any of the previous commentary but ask all of you to rather look at what South Africa CAN be, and not what it once was or have become.
…and how many of you are actual South Africans? Have you been living HERE the past 15 years? I have! Search the net and just see what’s done to you just because you’re white.
Best is to agree to disagree on this matter as most people who have a mouth full on white South Africans have never been here. You’ll never have to know how it feels to be to afraid to go to sleep at night.
Its dissapointing how sum pple on here speak with more emotion then fact… I hate discrimnation of anykind. When I stayed in london after just a week,I cud not see color anymore. In london it dusnt matter where u cum from who ur family is,what ur color is, how poor or rich u R or were.What matters is who u R now and what u bring to the table… Wen I cam back to SA I was reminded constantly of what my color is and how I must fite extra hard to achieve things. Nd I don’t understand Y sum whites (NOT All OF THEM) still think they R special and deserve to be 1st in this world. To be honest we all need to look deep in ourselves and need to unlearn what we were taught growing up.we where taught to hate one another and that one is better then the other…peace out
It sounds like the country should have been split into seperate states after aparteid ? Is that possible today without a civil war ? I got here accidently looking at wildlife reserves i would love to come and see. I’m a little nervous now..!
It’s so interesting to see the comments from people I assume are American. YOU are the worst of all! YOU stole the land from the Indians and killed them! YOU treat black people like sh*t. I remember watching a doccie on t.v where a black singer was punished for sticking her big toe in a whites only pool in America, and they made black SLAVES drain and scrub the whole pool. SO DON’T SPEAK OF THINGS THAT YOU ARE THE MOST GUILTY OF DOING! NO way in heck that South African white people done worse things to us black people THAN YOU DID and than YOU ARE STILL DOING. So just sh*t up.
Ana BLACKS are not from North America and South America. Blacks are from SUB-SAHARAN Africa. They were brought as slaves. You should read and learn more before you write your wrong comment.Most of the people in the Americas are Euro and Asiatic descendents (with strong NATIVE influence). Learn!
I’m happy that the whites are driven into poverty. Whites need to leave the continent of Africa. Those white devils cause the cultural destruction of so many people (South Americas, North America, Austrilia, etc.). Blacks need to reclaim their lands and push those devils OUT!
No white should be allowed to live in such terrible environment. It’s true that, Political correctness is such a disease. Futher more it’s biggest mistake of white people
It’s quit humorous, to read all the comments in this argument. First and for most, we are of one race and of one kind, all from the species Homo sapien. The only difference is the pigmentation of our skin. The same red colored blood runs through the veins of a black man, also runs through the veins of a white man. Clearly, I do not understand the point of racism. The issue being discussed here is poverty. And as far as I’m concerned; poverty is poverty, no child should be allowed to grow up in such circumstances regardless of their skin color.
Furthermore, the white South Africans of this generation should not be held accountable for the doings of their ancestors. Yes, the black South Africans suffered in the face of many white rulers, but why hold a grudge. The only why to be successful is too united; before the country ends up like Zimbabwe. And I mean this with all respect as a fellow Zimbabwean.
Think about Australia or New Zealand would be in poverty if it wasn’t for the English taking them over so why be so harsh on the South Africans?
I m black male,I think we just need to pray hard and love each other.forgive and forget the past and start living.
Humans all over the world are suffering needlessly from diseases that can be cured at little cost and in a matter of hours using a simple formula called MMS discovered by an American entrepreneur, Jim Humble. Check out the website: http://www.miraclemineral.org. It works.
I’m amused by all the racist black people around here. If I’d say that blacks deserve to be poor, I’d be branded a racist. If the US would do affirmative action for whites in the same way South Africa is doing it, people would be outraged. It is sad that we still have morons today who think affirmative action isn’t moral.
And to those blacks who say that Africa is for Africans, I’d ask you to advise your brothers to live Europe already then and move back to Africa. Political correctness is such a disease.
I would like to know how to get in touch with the Methodist Church featured in the presentation which is providing space for refugees. Some of us would like t find a way to help them if you can help us find a way to find them.
Sure Jud, Africa for Africans when Europe is for EUROPEANS you hypocrite.
This isn’t about ‘what goes around, comes around’, because whites have always had it harder than blacks. Blacks couldn’t handle multiculturalism destroying their countries, and it seems like whites are actually starting to recover from it despite the racism we endure from ‘people of color’.
White people are truly stronger than any race that has ever existed for continuing to bounce back from the continuous efforts to destroy our culture and our people.
Some of you who laugh at this and say this is karma might want to worry what karma is bringing your way for being such a hateful and evil person.
Forgetting about this whole idea of racism for a minute, let’s just look at the real facts.
1. If it weren’t for the white immigrants south africa would be ALL poverty just like the rest of Africa.
2. The reason why there is an increase in white poverty is NOT because there is now an equal playing ground for both whites and blacks. It is because the blacks are purposely and legislatively DISCRIMINATING against the whites in favor of blacks. Whereas in white majority countries the whites are discrmiminating against whites so that non-whites can get higher positions.
3. In America and Europe whites and non-whites are given the same opportunities (with affirmative actually discriminating against whites and giving non-whites even more opportunities).
4. Racial crime against whites and hate is FAR greater in South Africa than any racial crime against blacks or any other non-white race in Europe or America.
5. It’s obvious that when non-white people (and particularly blacks) are in control that they do NOT afford THEIR minorities the same outrageously lavish benefits that white majority countries offer their non-white “minorities”.
6. It’s amazing how once white countries (UK and the USA) are falling into 3rd world status in proportion to their white populations being displaced by non-whites. Both America and the USA will be majority non-white very soon and stability is uncertain.
Again, this has nothing to do with racism, they are just facts.
I am a whithe female born in the Free State and then moved to Cape Town the only DA ruling party in South Africa, If you was not born there and lived there you would never understand. We moved to the US only last year but not for politics and I left my daughter behind she is know 24, and she is still postive although she as a whiht woman did not get the goverment work and she was the only whith female in a group of 6 people the others where all black. It is not al what it seems like some people in the US are very uninformed about South Africa. Yes there is problems but that is every where and people black or white is responsiable for there own future by going to school, then university ext, they had it all from day one.
How the South African Police Fiddle Crime Statistics
From The Sunday Times:
Published: Jul 04, 2009
http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1028811
LYING BASTARDS
The ANC POLICE are trying to hide the true horrific Crime Statistics from the WHITE TOURISTS.
530 CHILDREN RAPED BY BLACKS PER DAY SOUTH AFRICA.
South Africa
The CRIME, MURDER, RAPE Capital of the World.
60 to 149 MURDERS per DAY South Africa
1 RAPE every 17 Seconds in South Africa.
67,000 BABIES RAPED
by BLACK MEN, IN ONE YEAR
530 CHILDREN RAPED BY BLACKS PER DAY SOUTH AFRICA.
3050 WHITE FARMERS TORTURED AND BRUTALLY MURDERED BY BLACKS.
South Africa the RAPE, MURDER Capital of the WORLD.
Proudly South African.
South Africa is the CRIME, MURDER RAPE Capital of the World.
60 to 149 MURDERS per DAY South Africa
PER DAY
WOW.
South Africa is the CRIME, MURDER Capital of the World.
According to South African Police Services: Murders 60 per DAY.
According to Department of Home Affairs: Murders 83 per DAY.
According to Medical Research Council: Murders 89 per DAY
According to Interpol claims: Murders 149 per DAY.
NOT A SINGLE ONE ON SABC TV.
The reason for this under-reporting of MURDER and CRIME in South Africa could be the desire by the ANC Government to change the growing reputation of South Africa as the “crime capital of the world”, this title is one any government would desperately want to lose as it would cause any potential investor to take his money elsewhere.
EXPOSED
ANC Governmunt Conspiracy of silence has been EXPOSED
The South African POLICE said:
“They are not allowed to disseminate information because they have to pretend our suburbs are safe for the World Cup.
We are under siege and the criminals have taken over.”
Also
Massive ANC / SAPS Crime Statistics Cover-up fraud finally exposed.
PAARL Police.
ANC Governmunt 1994 to 2008 today more than 300,000 South Africans murdered.
Including MORE than 35,000 White South Africans murdered since 1994.
Including GENOCIDE 3,050 White Afrikaner Farmers Tortured and Brutally Murdered since 1994.
Nelson Mandela ANC Terrorist Conman.
THE WORLDS GREATEST SPIN DOCTOR.
South Africa is one of the few countries that was colonised and abused, but regained it’s freedom. If it weren’t for the white settlers it would not be where it is today. All of the natives of the countries which were taken over by the white men were abused and killed and used as slaves. But of those countries where abuse went to the extremes only SA was given back. They should be thankful of the white man for giving them the chance to expand and grow, not deny them the chance to experience the growth too
Vanessa #5
As for you hoping that Zuma, the new president, will give new hope… Good luck? The same thing was said about Mbeki, which lead to his own party pushing him towards an early retirement from his presidential position.
As for Zuma, he might look like he’s on a ‘righteous’ path, but where there’s smoke, there’s most likely fire: his curruption scandals and rape accusations. Without a fully resolved trial, it’s been dropped, or ‘forced’ to be dropped before the elections. And why would he like to change the constitution in a manner to remove the maximum lenght of a presidential term? Is he aiming at staying the president indefinately? Mugabe (and this man starves his own people) did exactly the same thing when he became president, emperor or whatever he likes to call himself. I don’t mind anyone becoming president, but changing the terms of constitution is the 1st sign that the one trying to change it isn’t used to living by the law, and certainly won’t inspire others to live by it either. Please find an Obama for South-Africa, someone who actually abides by the law himself, to become the president.
Did you know that French engineers are hauled over to our nice South-Africa, and paid the amount they would get paid in France, which is almost triple of what your get paid if you’re south-african, to supervize the works on the new Worldcup 2010 infrastructure, while a lot of qualified engineers are jobless because they are white? So the government would rather spend more to deny white engineers jobs. This has a negative effect on other areas aswell.
A lot of promises were made leading up to the previous eletions, and the elections before that, for example, the promise of housing. The government would build up a budget on housing projects, to turn most of the ’squatter camps’ into housing neighbourhoods. But this has long been forgotten, because that same budget is being redirected from socially aimed projects to the construction budget for the 2010 worldcup and the French engineers. So running up to the worldcup you’ve got some extra jobs, and during the worldcup aswell, but what will happen after the worldcup? Back to unemployment for a lot of people, no budget for housing anymore and the rich will only get richer… This is where the lack of qualified individuals being denied jobs shows itself. Not only well-thought through planning, but calculation of the budgets, could be done by qualified people, but now rests in the hands of people guessing at what ‘bet’ would make the most profit.
I’m still waiting for the promises made, to help my family…
On this Sabbath Club of Rome confirmation of 45% Sechelles- Seychelles debts – the painful Reportage by Arte on South Africa White.
Dear President J A Michel, FA Rene, SPPF, Seychelles government and Assembly – the Seychelles community who have lived and worked in South Africa and their friends in Seychelles.
We grew up around the family of former President FA Rene and that of James Michel – indeed very many Seychellois families from our early days of recollection 1953/54 until 1977 when we left Seychelles for exile. Among one of the first second or third to go into exile – our reasons and the reasons. The very many families of white decent be they French, British, other European National – we have never seen, recall and confronted with such terrible TV Documentary reportage of human situation.
{For those of you who will not shut their mouth and suddenly start raving /raging your Satanic puck – shut up and listen – I/we belong to one of those in the world who created the impetus for the First Live Aid by Bob Geldorf to take place and save the millions starving in Ethiopia and since them very – very many such inputs and contribution across the world. Indeed last years situation in Kenya, Zimbabwe, Madagascar and current situation Somalia.}
We challenge FA Rene and JA Michel – the SPPF by the same moral argument they have used the past 35 years to help and better the live of the Black and colored population in Seychelles – the state of things until 1988 and the changes which those of us led/fought that Nelson Mandela gain his freedom and changes come to south Africa. The belief and conviction that in spite of the bloody and terrible history of Independence in Africa - the outcome of the White or Asians, that in the case of South Africa like in Seychelles will lend and make an example of practice.
Like the Seychelles government and the SPPF politic in Seychelles since 1977 to 1991 and after 1993 to date where the government, politicians and party have practice their own brand of Aparthide – that is given business, job, position, support and favors only to those who support them, vote for them , go along their political thinking etc. The situation which began to take place in South Africa as early as 1993 when the exodus began – the mass migration from south Africa, the past and current government of south Africa politic – jobs , favor and support for those who support them and work with them – how the white began to become bystanders, marginalized and when one study and take stock of the situation ins south Africa today the lives and poverty of the whites – those who have build and work for south Africa they are living in slums and squalors just like any squalor and shanty town in South African and very many other parts of the world.
The issues of that mega Financial and economic melt down is badly explained and portraited by they world media and the politicians – two years ago we were asking where has the $500 – 800 billions debt money gone to from Africa. The system in place in USA, Europe, Asia to use their power and resource to create system that overnight swallowed the $500/800 billions African debt money – and those people and nations found them self worse off than they were before the debt Conference – because the infernal system/machine was not in place to turn their lives into hell.
Those big Jewish Multinational that and who had come to Seychelles with the same desire and prospect – how when we first spotted this we began to insult them and threaten to use our French and European archaic/fraternal – Christian mechanism to confront and challenge them. Some of the terrible outcomes. { Then have the arrogance to threaten all those who did not support them or went along their infernal skims as Terrorists and they would send Israeli eliminating Squads anywhere in the world to eliminate them}
We informed the South African government, their Heraldic institutions, Seychelles many officials, France, Britain, Italy – the Vatican, Holland, Portugal, Austria – the European Heraldic colleges and relevant institutions - many of the European archaic/fraternal institutions that we had prior to concepting that coat of arms for our EU community put together a national flag for Seychelles how in 1988/9 this was taken and by what methods and made the flag of south Africa and the original can be seen/vied on our community portal.
How when it came/we came to concept the coat of arms for our Sechelles – Seychelles instead of using a French we used a Dutch Old colonial coat of arms to build, model our Sechelles - Seychelles EU community coat of arms, our reasons.
Those in South Africa, in Europe, in Asia, in Seychelles who were interested in only how big the money from this project and the properties of the heraldic synergies they would and could make the mass fortunes and wealth they have all made, the South African Stock markets, big corporations and property market and the Black politicians those who have benefited very importantly too – we the Sechelles – Seychelles EU community have had crumbs or next to nothing. This in the history and complex archaic, heraldic and fraternal – Christians system and mechanism of heraldry is unheard, intolerable and courting very and very big disaster – in the old days wars or major conflicts.
We have taken extra time to think and visualize the situation of those people in South Africa – meanwhile in the Indian Ocean, from Mauritius, Reunion, Madagascar, Comor, Sir Lanka, Maldive, African Union, the Gulf Region, Indian and Asian countries who have benefited very importantly for that heraldic – coat of arms project of our Sechelles -, Seychelles EU community in $millions, billions and trillions – the state and fate of those large and growing number of white in South African upon which our Sechelles Seychelles EU Community coat of Arms is build upon – inspired.
Every creature, animals, plants, virus, microbe, organism relate – their brain and thinking mechanism inform them who their species and origins are and what they are all about – we are talking of human here irrespective black or white.
In Sechelles – Seychelles had president FA Rene or JA Michel continued – perused with their terrible one sided politic, Sechelles, Seychelles would have been change by military force and the outcome. This we can say with very great certainty. Because of our important effort to avoid, help avert this outcome. Today as the club of Rome confirm to write off 45% of Seychelles debt those who have swindle, stolen, skimmed of/creamed off a large amount of this money. The standard of living for the Black and colored and what is left of the French and other white settlers – their decent in Seychelles. This is not the case in South Africa a land of very vast riches, economic possibilities, resources, and the state of things in the African Union today – those who aspire for a greater and better African Union.
We had that mega earthquake and Tsunami of 2004/5 the outcome. We have had this mega financial and economic Earthquake and Tsunami of 2008/9 unless those who care about future posterity, the people of the planet earth get together and do something fast – the next event and time round we may be lucky if we even have possibilities and capacity to have a space in a slum to live. May I/we add have very many friends conncetions with the British and European Roma people - what we have seen from that report stinks - it is bloody evil.
South Africa is following in the footsteps of America when it come to equal wrights, like anerica, when all of the older people die then most of the descrimination will die.
In most of what I read here I sense anger and judgment. It is sad to see that at this point in this century people still do not understand that Humans are humans, no matter what the color of the skin is! As someone mentioned, we should learn from the past and not seek to repeat it. I believe that any act of discrimination is just wrong and the governments we elect should not encourage that in any shape or form. Now as to the white South Africans vs. the black ones, there should be equality and the government should make sure that all are treated fairly and given the same opportunities. There needs to be a change of mentality; only when we understand that we are all humans with the same blood flowing through us, with the same issues, will the problem be addressed correctly!
I very much understand the idea behind affirmative action, but the root of this act is discrimination…true, a certain part of the population suffered for a long time, but how does returning the favor to the offending party benefit anyone? This just creates more anger and hatred and it is a time bomb just waiting to explode!!
We need to stop focusing on the blame and instead seeking solutions that will bring all together instead of further dividing.
And for the readers information, I am an African lady, but not from South Africa; I currently live in the USA and have at times been victim of discrimination. This has not made me bitter, but instead made me realize how much more we need to take down the barriers of race and such things. We usually talk about black and white, but even among whites or blacks or Asians and whatever distinction you care to bring up, we still find a way to discriminate!! THAT NEEDS TO STOP!
O.R. YEW #13,
Lack of understanding? Tell me what I said wrong and show me how. More children die before the age of 5 in South Africa now than in any other country in Africa. Blacks never had it this bad even under apartheid. Compassion, for what? You are responsible for the government you elect. Zimbabwe, South Africa all CHOSE their governments through a ballot box. Live with your choices and the consequences thereof.
Jud #17,
So what is an African in your view? He has to be black in order to be an African? Clearly you don’t even understand the consequences of BEE. You are nothing more than a misguided bleeding heart liberal. By the way I did not benefit from apartheid as you suggest, as you correctly noted - blacks did not benefit. I lack your misconceptions. I know that liberals such as yourself have destroyed MY continent by failing time and time again by not holding black leaders accountable for their actions or inactions. I hold people accountable irrespective of the colour of their skin.
We learn from the past, not live in it!
How ignorant! people here are still referring to independent African countries such as Zimbabwe by their colonial names “Rhodesia”. Get over it. Africa is … AFRICAN!
I shall try my best to inform people about the need to vote for Jacob Zuma and the need for support of any kind…
It was good that Worldfocus aired the story on white poverty in South Africa. Now if only they would do similar stories on Rhodesia and other parts of White Africa.
Andre #13,
You got to be one of the old white folks who used to enjoy the benefits of being white during the Apartheid years. you should not tell others that they do not understand how the BEE works and how whites are disenfranchised. Native South Africans (Not the European South Africans) have suffered for long to let your kind live comfortable while they suffered. So learn to live with the consequences of Apartheid, and if you do not like what you see, then …. Africa is for Africans.
I am sorry to say this, but for one white poor family there are thousand black poor families. I cannot believe what the black south African lady said at the end “they (whites) are not used to being poor so i feel for them.” What? what i am saying is that when there are a couple of poor white folks complain about being poor, we hear and see it across the world and try to make the system that they are governed in is unfair, but when you have millions of poor black South Africans, nobody cares….. From the report what i have learned is that the whites folks wish they could get the old days back. the old days where they abused and did not even care about how poor the black South Africans lived. all i can say is that the white folks should learn to live just like the millions of poor South Africans, and stop complaining! “What goes arond comes around!”
It is funny how alot of you folks seem to have become arm-chair experts on South africa, when you probably don’t even know where in the world South Africa is. We are on the brink of civil war, yet you keep thinking up excuses of so called “injustices”. You keep thinking up excuses for an inept/racist government. Now it seems the world economy is on the brink of implosion. What we have learned so far, is that apartheid didn’t work, and now democracy isn’t working either. The ‘majority’ is too stupid to realise what the implications of their own government’s actions are. Multi culturism is like communism, in theory it seems perfect, in practice it is an abysmal failure.
Andre,your coments speak volumes to your lack of understanding and compassion on behalf of the so-called blacks of south africa(azania).you theroies are tenable if we consider your evidence and avoid any other.shame on you and may
god bless your lost soul
I am always amazed at home little people know about South Africa yet feel free to make comments which are misguided. There is no equal footing when it comes to employment. Only blacks gain from Affirmative Action. The other minorities such as Coloureds and Indians get the same treatment as whites. They are ostracized from South African employment. BEE or “Black Economic Empowerment” dictates that you must be ‘black’ to get contracts from the government for your company. It also dictates that companies registered in SA must have a black person on the board of directors.
People don’t long for the days gone by because they want apartheid back. They long for those days because everything worked be they black or white. 15 years in what the West calls ‘Freedom’ has created a near failed state. Where 50 people are murdered each day and unemployment is at 40%. There would not be a poverty problem in South Africa to this extent if the ANC ruling party did not spend money on white elephants such as spending billions on buying warships and jets, world cup white elephant stadiums when black and white are in poverty. How many current members of parliament right now have been charged and convicted of fraud and corruption - loads!
To Tim-
No one is gloating about the condition of the poor whites. I think everyone is acknowledging that anyone suffering under such conditions is wrong.
I myself was simply pointing out that for the whites to blame the black government, while seemingly reminiscing about how well they did under Apartheid is wrong, and reflective of the same thinking which created Apartheid in the first place. They need to realize that the Apartheid is responsible for their and every one else in South Africa’s plight.
As for the black woman you mentioned, she actually bothered me a great deal. She seemed to be of a mindset that suggests that its WORSE to see whites in poverty than blacks, which is reflective of a self-loathing that systems such as Apartheid create in the minds of the victims.
Interesting to see how many posters here gloating about the plight of poor white people in SA. In the midst of your smugness, let me remind you - the black lady interviewed in the video did not share your glee.
It was funny to me that the whites interviewed blame the black government for their poverty. The fact that they can’t come to terms with the real culprit of their economic suffering is one of the reasons they can’t recover. They have to first realize that the system of Apartheid, which I’m sure some of them benefitted from, is the cause of their problems. Just like a rubberband stretched to its limits snaps back with equal force, so to are they feeling the sting of their country’s injustice. Yes, it is wrong for anyone to suffer regardless of race. And hopefully this will end (all over the world). But the whites who are suffering need to realize that they’re reaping what they sowed. Not merely karmically, but socially. I have no doubt that the blacks in power are engaing in some level of unfair practices. But just as someone who is injured has to HEAL before they can function at their best, so to, must the blacks who suffered under Apartheid need to have time to heal and release the penned up hostilities.
Perhaps, now the “Whites” will realize how cruel and unjust they had been towards “Blacks”, for centuries. Now, they are getting a TASTE of INJUSTICE.
KARMA, “What goes around, comes around”, or “You reap what you sow”. The Bible says: “Those who are first shall be last, and those who are last shall be first”. Perhaps, this experience will make people reconsider their treatment of others.
Some of the people who wrote comment about South African video made me laugh. I never live in the country but I have talk to people from there black and white. They all tell me the same thing about the ANC and the BEE system. How do you think South Africa became one of the develop country in Africa? Zimbabwe was once the bread basket of Africa can’t even feed the population they depend on other country handout. Ian Smith had Robert Mugabe in jail then the blacks, and the west said this is a crime to have this man in jail look at the country now under Robert Mugabe.
Yes the apartheid system was a bad system for blacks. Nelson Mandele wife said she understand why the whites had apartheid so they can survive. The BEE has forced many skill workers out of the country it has made many whites poor as you can see in the video. Image the United States having affirmative action policy for the majority. The majority in South Africa is the blacks the whites only make up eight percent of the country population stop blaming the whites.
The European nation didn’t steal from Africa, India, and etc. They built the country and did a good job running them. What were the black African, Indian, and Native American doing before the European came? The Roman use slave when they conquer the world most of them were white not black. I don’t see Roman or the west feeling bad for the white people they enslave.
To Ben Van (poster No 3) I will say it could be worst than affirmative action, we could have a reverse apartheid where all whites are herded into the ghettoes of Soweto.
No disrespect to any of the commenters, but many people are confused about white poverty in South Africa. First, I would like Jacob Zuma to get his priorities straight: expend more resources to help black South Africans instead of talking about equality that’s baseless in its premise. There’s poverty is every society, even in the great United States of America. Why are people getting worked up over a handful of poor white South Africans (when compared to SA’s population)? Who cares! The years of poverty-led policies towards black SA was encouraged by the apartheid regime in South Africa and many European nations that had vested interest in apartheid South Africa. Whites in SA are the result of open competition in the system, just like in the market economy, not directly discrimination. There isn’t favoritism because they are whites, anymore, and some had the nerves to blame the blacks in SA. The discourse rather, should be about improving the lives of blacks that had been under extreme poverty deliberately perpetuated by unlawful, corrupt apartheid regime of the past, and which still exists today in other forms.
One can tell that blacks have accepted that poverty is synonymous to blacks. Even blacks are the ones saying it. This notion simply alludes to a “conditioned response” that’s ingrained in the minds and beliefs of blacks. They, themselves cannot believe that white people can be poor, or should be poor. This is simple: SLAVERY MENTALITY. The political dialogue should be about creating a system that’s inclusive and receptive to all. To me, all lives are equal. But it’s shameful to spend time to talk about white poverty.
Zuma should focus on his Constituency before trying to be the savior. The problem with black leaders sometimes is that they display inferiority on certain matters, such as this one. Or maybe he’s just playing politics; which I doubt. There are millions of blacks in poverty world over. Check out Haiti and you will understand. Haiti is the poorest country or one of the poorest countries in the western hemisphere, a stone throw from the U.S. shore. No one is really “losing sleep” in the U.S over it.
I found the empathy that the black South African woman had for the poverty stricken white’s to be inspirational. When the black woman commented that “blacks are used to it but it made her uncomfortable and feel bad to see white’s going through it” I was just awestruck. On the same note I was saddened to see that the poverty stricken whites are blaming the blacks for the situation they are in. I hope the new president gives new hope to ALL South Africans in the coming years. I am a newbie but love World Focus and its my new favorite news program. Thanks for having the best news that really matters.
Poverty in any form is a sad and horrible thing. It is also, with 6+ billion people on the planet, a fact of human existence. Yet I find it fascinating that black south africans found it somehow different and more difficult to look at when it was white south africans that were suffering. “It’s different,” one black woman said “blacks are used to it.” Ouch. That should really hurt - all of us, whatever race - that we see it as somehow less painful, ‘ok’ maybe, for one racial group to suffer poverty than another. I saw the S.A. film “Tsotsi” some years back about the ghettos that still exist today in S.A. It highlighted the poverty that millions of blacks experience everyday. Their poverty was as absolute, if not more physically horrible than those highlighted in your report…. yet….. I don’t know…. It is troubling to me that somehow, maybe, white poverty hits us differently and as more horrible than poverty of other races - black or indian (Slum Dog Millionaire) or Brazil, or Mexico or Indonesia or wherever. Is it because we are so used to seeing others suffer poverty but not us white folks? Some moral and ethical dilemma stews in me, but I can’t grasp it. Troubling.
Biggest problem with the report:”Blacks and whites now compete on an equal basis (for jobs)” South Africa has the most aggressive Affirmative Action Policy in the world. 60% of government posts are vacant, because there is no qualified black to fill it and they are unwilling to give it to a white. Ironically, this means that while the rich are being provided for by the Private sector (health and security) the poor suffer horrendous services because they can’t afford private health and security, and must look to a rotten disfunctional govenrment sector - understaffed, underskilled and as a bonus…corrupt. Chainreaction. SA is bleeding white skilled workers, losing it to other more appreciative and safe countries. Also very greatful countries. No, F. Belyea, there’s no PEACE in SA, only shattered PIECES.
I’am a black male and i do feel sorry for them, i’m a person who would not want to see anyone in poverty.
Yes, is it rather disturbing to see “poverty” whether it be black or white.
However, let us remember how the English, the French, the Dutch and many “white” nations who went into countries all around the world such as Africa, India, parts of the Middle East, the Caribbean Islands (Jamaica, Haiti, etc, Australia and more and “colonized” these peoples. Took (stole) the natural resources such as land, gold, diamonds, oil and more to benefit themselves for hundreds of years. Putting the indigenous people into poverty, slavery and as “second class” citizens. Look at the Aborigines from Australia, the Native Americans, Africans, Asian Indians and people of color ALL over this planet.
This is one of the FEW times in history that you will see the social and economic turn to the “disadvantage” of a “white” person. There is the old addage: “What goes around…comes around”! Finally in my lifetime! PEACE!
Produced by Creative News Group LLC ©2010 WNET.ORG All rights reserved
Distributed by American Public Television
03/16/2010 :: 07:44:43 AM
kiss Says:
It’s funny that woldfocus would focus on poor whites in SA. They are the minorities and should be on equal playing field with the majority. Whites in SA need to wake up and smell the coffee. Apartheid is over. The black man is king, they can’t dictate to black folks how they used to.