February 5, 2009
One in five Israeli citizens is Arab
The history of conflict between Israel and its Arab neighbors is well-documented. A story told not nearly as often is the relationship between Arabs and Jews within Israel. It is a question with serious repercussions, as approximately one in five Israelis is Arab. How are they faring?
Worldfocus special correspondent Michael Greenspan and producers Yuval Lion and Ara Ayer report from Israel.
66 comments
All this back-and-forth hatred, self-rationalizing, and finger-pointing! Will it ever end?
The solution to all of this is so simple that no one even considers it: What would happen if the Israelis abandoned their toxic dream of a land owned and operated by and for none but themselves (whom they fancy as entitled to it by being “God’s Chosen People”), while Palestinians abandoned their toxic intergenerational resentments and hatreds over the land that their parents and grandparents were driven from by armed Jewish refugees from Europe, who were seeking the dream of their own exclusive land?
What if BOTH sides simply acknowledged that the “other” is there, now, and is as human as they are–that the “other” shares the same basic dreams of freedom, peace, security, and justice…starting today, right now. Can either side simply let go of the past, and start with the present moment, find common interests, and build a single nation based on religious freedom and tolerance, guaranteed human rights, and mutual respect? Is that too much to ask?
It’s all over not Baba Blue. Love and Compassion are not romantic ideas – that are reality based expressions. Arabs and Jews have different sentiments, history and aspirations. I can not work, so let’s jus learn to live with the Blues. The blues of we took your land and it is too late to give it back and we sacrifice many goats in Mecca, so we are used to seeing the innocent die unjustly.
So many comments - so many buttons pushed. I think the buttons are very sensitive, due to the extreme situation in the Middle East. It is too bad we cannot back up 50,000 miles and look at the Middle East from space. It would appear that these labels of Arab or Jew are squeezing our brains to the size of a chick pea. We are not only all citizens of this tiny Earth; we are also, citizens of this vast Universe. Furthermore, the last time we checked, WE WERE ALL THE PROGENHY OF ONE SUPREME PROGENATOR.
Palestinian terrorists deliberately killing Israeli children:
May 4, 2004, near Gaza border:
After spraying the station wagon with bullets, the Palestinian terrorists walked up to the 4 terrified little girls and shot each one of them twice in the head, police said. The 8-month-old pregnant mother was shot in her belly at point blank range as she tried to cover her children
After spraying the station wagon with bullets, the Palestinian terrorists walked up to the 4 terrified little girls and shot each one of them twice in the head, police said. The 8-month-old preggetnant mother was shot in her belly at point blank range as she tried to cover her children.
March 06, 2008, Jerusalem:
Two Palestinian terrorists infiltrated Jerusalem’s Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva and murdered eight Jews children. At least six children have been wounded; three are in critical condition.
Jul 5, 2006 ,The Qassam rocket yesterday hit Ashkelon’s Ronson High School.
Jan.05, 2009, Grad rocket strikes Ashdod kindergarden.
Feb 28, 2009, A rocket fired from the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip hit a school in Israel
April, 02, 2009, near Jerusalem
Deadly terror by attack by Palestinian terrorist in Bat Ayin in which 13-year-old was murdered and another boy 7y.o, was wounded.
By Nadav Shragai, Haaretz Correspondent
Some 1,700 dunams of land in the northern part of Efrat were declared state land last week, paving the way for the West Bank settlement to start the process of seeking government approval to build there.
The Civil Administration issued the declaration after rejecting eight appeals by Palestinians against the move. A ninth appeal was accepted, and the land covered by this appeal was consequently removed from Efrat’s jurisdiction.
However, construction is still a long way off. First, the Civil Administration must formally allocate the land to the Housing Ministry, which, under new rules adopted by Ehud Olmert’s government, cannot be done without approval from both the prime minister and defense minister.
Then the Housing Ministry must give Efrat’s local council a permit to start the usually long planning process, which involves securing permits from various agencies. Only then can the work of building some 2,500 housing units in the Givat Ha’eytam neighborhood begin.
Since the outcome of the elections makes it likely that the next government will lean more to the right than the current one, Efrat plans to wait until the new government takes office before submitting its request.
Efrat, with around 9,000 residents, is the largest settlement in the Gush Etzion settlement bloc, and Givat Ha’eytam is the last unbuilt hill of the seven within the town’s jurisdiction. Despite being the hill nearest Jerusalem, Ha’eytam lies outside the planned route of the separation fence, which has yet to be built in this area.
Gush Etzion is one of the settlement blocs that all Israeli governments have said they want to retain under any final-status agreement with the Palestinians.
To JGE’s comment #15:
What are you talking about?
Itzhak Rabin, Shimon Peres and Yasser Arafat, all three won the 1994 Nobel Peace Prize.
Menachem Begin’s Irgun commandos, a terrorist group, were responsible for the King David Hotel bombing, they were also responsible for the murder of over 100 men, women, and children in cold blood at Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents, on April 9, 1948.
Why would anyone give Begin a Peace prize?
And if truth be told, I can’t see how Rabin or Peres can be viewed as messengers of peace considering that in 1988,Rabin ordered troops to break bones of Palestinians rebelling against Israeli occupation of West Bank and Gaza, arguing it will keep down death toll.
As for Shimon Peres, he has an extensive list of human rights violations,too many to list.
Peace advocates? war mongers is more befitting.
Sandra Koponen,
You had raised a valid question. However the answer is not that simple.
After 8 years ans 7,000 of non-stop rockets on its cities and towns, Israel had to do what any other country would do, to stop the terror on its civilian.
You see, it is not the direct damage which those rockets were carrying with them, as much as the psychological and emotional effect. You can imagine more then 750,000 Israeli civilians were afraid to go out. Parent were literally drained of emotion watching their children traumatized.
In the past, when Israel did use IDF to contain the violence from Gaza & West Bank, the Media was all over reporting every move there. Since most of the broadcasts (Al Gazeera, CNN, etc) were done live, inadvertently these networks also were revealing to Hamas & Hizbollah the exact location of IDF. Obviously that created a security problem for Israel. More important though it was after the incident of 12 year old named Mohammed Aldura, famously named The “Al Dura case”. He was killed by the Hamas, and blamed on IDF. I urge you to look at this video on YouTube to see for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Z4_11wLjw&feature=related
Hamas is well known for its tacktics of diregards to the lives of their children by puting them in harms way, then parade the convulsive pictures of their dead bodies on TV.
Last December, Israel had enough, and decided to take decisive action to stop the rockets.
There is another element to Israel massive response. It sends a clear message to other fringe terror groups like Hamas, Hizbollah, and others around the world, to remind them that there will be heavy price paid for using this type of warfare methodology against civilian center.
If decisive action is not taken now, you can be sure Al-Qaeda and others terror groups will copy it in other countries as well.
Mr. Levy “Doron” Have the Jews and Israel ever presented the Palestinians with real opportunity for them to miss. When Abba Eban said that statement Yegale Yadin another ethic cleanser said “we will never give the Arabs a proposal they can accept” go to your leaders memories and find out for yourself. Nothing I write, I can not back up 100% with UN documents scholarly books and articles, and even Israeli sources. Every thing you wrote is from Hollywood, or the spin machine that began convoluting the Jewish mind after 1967. You did not take time to explain to me, you took time to advocate your narrative, but since you do not have real information, you are stuck and can not answer me. The average Israeli has five points to make, beyond that he/she is stock with reality and history. Something all of you would like to stop in 1948. No Palestinian Diaspora, no forced Palestinian expulsion, no ethnic cleansing, no segregated roads for Jews, no cutting trees, no home demolition, no killing babies, and indeed the Palestinians do not exist. You even had the Chutzpu to compare India and Pakistan to Israel, something no sane human will ever do. Go read before you blog
Why has there been a black out of the humanitarian situation in Gaza? Certainly the situation must be dire as the Israeli bombing continues, the after effecs of white phospherous bombs, hospitals are bombed and out of supplies, water mains and sewage destroyed by Israelis, shortages of food, etc. Please report on the situation in Gaza and let the world know!
Mister hoffman,
First I am no Dorn L, and never assumed double identies here. It is your convoluted imagination driving you. No wonder other pro-Israelis stopped bothering to respond to your convoluted responses.
After reading few of your posts, at first I thought, hmm, this guy think he knows the real conditions in the ME. I took the time and tried to explain to you that, there are 2 sides to each conflict.
You read what you wish to read, and aboviously draw your own conclusion which serve your own wishes and prejudices.
I have no time to waste with you. Keep on (dis)serving the Pals interests by blindly defend their own leaders continued wrong path of “never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity”.
Good bye.
M. Levy, I know you are blogging in two different names now ( Levy and Dorn) in all your blogs, you show no sense of history or real knowledge the Middle East, very typical of Israelis and Jews who are not interested in hearing any other narrative except the Holocaust. As your president Peres Said “the Palestinians must forget history” and as Livini reiterated the same call “Palestinians must forget their history to go forward” but you have to keep reminding the entire world of your history and the holocaust. You do not see the Palestinians to be equals or humans and that is why you feel that your narrative is more important than theirs. At any rate Dorn, you are a very ill informed bloggers who does not see passed his nose and knows very little about the history of the Middle East and about the world. Your writings reflect someone who loves to see a clash of civilizations around the globe and you feel that you belong to the Western Christian one. I must tell you do not fit, your values and your culture do not have the ingredients necessary for it. You love to kill babies and you love to destroy homes, and you love to cut trees, and you love to build segregated roads for Jews, but not others.
So the Palestinians are responsible for the holocaust because the ——-, by the way you got his name wrong and I am not giving you his name, another evidence of your poor historical knowledge and he was never related to Arafat, although many Jews would love the connection because it is convenient and to add some fiction to their narrative.
You forgot that the meeting with the Germans was against the French and the British, because they sold Palestine to the European Jews without the permission and knowledge of its native citizens (the Palestinian Christian, Jews, and Muslims), the Palestinian leader never went to Germany to conspire to kill Jews. If the Palestinians wanted to kill Jews, they had enough in Palestine and in the Islamic empire to do so, but they never did.
As for the Dhimmis, I hope that Israel treats all no Jews in Palestine as Dhimmis, they will have rights better than now and they know that they are protected, but not targeted all the time. Remember in 2000, when Israel killed 13 Israeli Arabs protesting peacefully against the killing of Palestinians in the West Bank. In addition look what the elections brought; Lieberman a racist by all means who is calling for ethic cleansing against the Arabs, I am an aware of a muslim leader who advocated the ethnic cleansing of Jews in the 1000 years. Remember that in the Islamic empires Jews and Christians held the best jobs, advisors, doctors, interpreters and many more.
As for the 1948-1967, that makes my point about Jordan and Israel conspiring against the Palestinians. Jordan was in control of the West Bank and never wanted to create a Palestinian state.
Let us examine the 6 Arab armies invading your young state. The Jordanian Army was under British rule in 1948, and England was the country that created Israel. How would that be possible, the British who created you will be fighting you!!!!!!, Egypt was under king Farouq, a play boy by all means. His dad Mohammad Ali built a great state in Egypt and he and his brothers destroyed it. I am not sure how could he save Palestine if he could not save his country. He was not interested in fighting you or anybody. He was concerned with women and drinking and that is why he was overthrown by the free officers. Syria and Lebanon were under French protection and France conspired with the UK to create your country. Iraq was the only country that sent 5, 0000 men to help against your well trained and well equipped army. But Amir Abdullah of Jordan never allowed the Iraqi army to come next to the West Bank, because he wanted it. So I do not know where did you sis Arab armies and by the way the Arab armies combined were not able to put more than 25,000 soldiers and Israel alone had more than 35,000 WWII trained soldiers. Remember that Ezra Wizman was a polite in the British force in WWII, just an example. By the way, I do not care who you are, your age, your nationality, or anything. This conflict is about values: the truth verses fiction. All your blogs and narratives are based on Hollywood, but not on real history books.
David Hoffman,
whoever you are, I truly command you for your heart bleeding concern for the oppressed, and the deprived ones. I hope the same concern is also spent on the sudanese in darfur.
Notwithstanding, You are intelligent enough to know that, by mentioning India & Paksitan, I was referring to wars, and consequences of wars. Yes, every war creates refugees. How it is solved is the crux of the argument.
Pakistan was created on exact same premises of religious sovereignty as state of Israel. we don’t see much cry about them expelling 8M Hindus.
In regards to your much repeated “Arab conspired with Jews”. This is one of the most far fetched accusation one can read. Have you read or watch the Haj Amin Al Huddeini (Uncle of Yasser Arafat), the Garnd Mufti of Jerusalem who met Hitler in November 1939 to discuss the extension of the Jewish Holocaust in then Palestine?. Or how about Hamas’s own charter?, which calls for killing Jews as a matter of religious obligation.
Yes, there were few Arab moderate leaders whom were willing to let Jews live in one place - all stipulated with one condition. Jews will live as minorities under Islam. Business as usual for them.
david, I am an Israeli & American, born and grew up in Islamic state in ME. I am not a young man, and have seen, heard enough of B.S in my life. I truly suggest you to re-read Dorn’s comments, as they speak the truth.
Unfortunately your fantastic stories of Arabs & Muslims cooperating with the creation of Israel does not hold water, in lieu of actions on the ground. 6 arab countgries Invade 1 day old Israel, wage 6 wars in 60 years, etc.
I don’t know who you are, but some of us the Israelis have personal experiences with this all painful conflict. Have endured first hand the Dhimmi system while we were living throughout the Islamic states. While Christian were physically persecuting the Jews, Muslims were doing it emotionally, and psychologically.
You see!, it is somewhat hard for others to come here and ballshit us about all that convoluted Islamic benevolence towards Jews. Just review the fate of other no-Muslim minorities in the region to see the utter flaws in your argument.
Have you ever asked the Pals?. Between 1948 - 1967 Palestinians had the same territories (Gaza, WB & E. Jerusalem) all for themselves. Their numbers was much less then today. Why didn’t they establish their own State of Palestine then. Repatriate the rest of the Pals from the refugee camps.
The bottom line is, the Arab-Israeli conflict is not as much about piece of land, as it is about state of mind. If you don’t believe me, just read Hamas’s own charter (August 1988). They tell you in black and white, it is a religious conviction which drives the whole Palestinian agenda. They are very good at inventing a non-existent “occupation” of Gaza, to manufacture “resistance”.
While you seem quick to blame Israel for all the Arabs & Islamists ills and failures for past 900 years. Perhaps you should spend time to learn lot more about the real agenda behind Islamist actions.
JGE: Once you stop killing Palestinian farmers and you stop bombing farms the globe will see what the Palestinians are capable of doing. You have tried so much to negate their history and their existence for along time. In fact you went as low as stealing their national meal the Falfel and you claimed its yours, in a flagrant violation of their human and cultural rights. So killing their roses does not surprise me at all.
DisHonest (DH) have a rose.
JGE: I know if the Palestinians will be left alone they will produce wonders, and I know that most of the roses that you are talking about die before they leave to Europe because your “peace loving country” prevents the farms from exporting their produce on time. There are many reports on that. In fact Wolfenson the former head of the World Bank resigned his post as an envoy to the quartet in protest over that. He charged that “Israel is killing the Palestinians infant economy” I wish that you will speak the truth once about your country’s systemic killing of the Palestinians on every front. Keep you shameless spins of protecting the oldest military occupation on earth. You do not have the courage to admit to human rights violations at all
To DisHonest (DH), have a new Gazan rose, and do not be grumpy.
#15
02/14/2009 :: 11:50:17 PM
JGE Says:
DH: Poor palestinians theiir DisHonest individual defending them. Hvae you heard the Gazans are exporting thousands of roses through Israel. Instead of “exporting” rockets to Israel.
What a few weeks of Israeli self defens produces, eh?
JGE: So I am dishonest, but defending the Palestinians. And you are honest but killing them. Imagine who will they choose???? Shame has no limitation. A typical colonial perspective, you think you speak on behave of the colonized and you pretend to know what is best for them
DH: Poor palestinians. They have a dishonest individual defending them.
Indeeed a dishonest individual. Poor palestinians.
M Levy: All your long essay has no connection to the question of Palestine at all. What does Germany, Hungry, Czecho have to do with the question of Palestine. What does India and Pakistan have to do with all of that? Israel was established by the UN in 1948, you were given 56% and the Arabs were given 44%. Your military leadership began an ethnic cleansing camping against the natives to drive them out. All you have to see is Israeli authors on the topic Allen Pape, Benny Morris, Avi Shlaim, and many more. There was no official Arab policy to expel Jews from Arab countries. In fact the Arab leaders were conspiring with the Israel to let many of their Jewish residence leave so Israel can win a demographic battle early on. Iran allowed Jews to leave with all their wealth, Morocco allowed Jews to leave with all their wealth, but Israel did not allow the Palestinians to leave with any of their positions. Many UN archives and documents testify to that.
Remember how the Jordanians were conspiring with the founders of Israel against the Palestinians. The meetings between Amir Abdullah Ibn Al Hussein, Gold Meir and Hiam Weizman and latter king Hussein and all Israeli prime ministers are well documented to conspire against Palestine and the Palestinians. In addition how Hussny Al Zaim the leader of Syria was secretly negotiating with Ben Gurion to sing a peace agreement between Israel and Syria as early as 1950, but Israel was not interested and he was killed in the same year. If the Arabs are forcing the Jews out, how come Tunisia, Syria, and Yemen still have Jews living there and we do not hear that their homes are being demolished on daily basis, and they can not go to their temples. Remember that the last Jew left Iraq in 2003, and all Jewish temples were preserved. I would love to see one Mosque in Tel-Aviv or West Jerusalem that the natives build before 1948 and the only democracy in the Middle East did not destroy.
May be you do not have Jewish suicide bombers yet, but you sure do have worse. Trigger happy soldiers with F16s and M16s killing women and children and thuggish settlers shooting systematically at the natives while picking up their olive and harvesting their lands. Settlers are living above the law in a land that rewards Palestinian killing with the best jobs. In fact to become Prime minister in Israel you have to kill Palestinians.
Your final point makes my case clearer: you want to kill the Palestinians, but they are not suppose to resist. So Sweden is suppose to attack when attacked, but the Palestinians are not. Killing them with impunity since 1936 until now is ok, but if they dare throw a stone or a home made bomb, they deserve to be Nuked. Great logic, by the New barbarians of the 21 century
Mr. david Hoffman wrote:
“I never head that a Muslim or an Arab country is engaged in cutting olive trees so settlers from Brooklyn can build houses, or can have segregated roads at the expense of the natives.”
Oh what a heart bleeding essay.
I am sure you did hear how Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Hungry, which after WWII had expelled hundreds of thousands of Germans out of their borders. looted and confiscated their homes.
I am sure you did hear about the 16 million Hindus from Paksitan and Muslims from India, whom overnight were expelled from their home by the neighboring counries back in 1947, as part of these 2 counries systematic ethnic and religious cleansing.
What about more then 1.2 Million Sephardi Jews living throughout the Arab countries. They also were expelled from their homes and land, as retaliation to the creation of Israel.
So, let me ask you mister, where are those refugee camps filled with German, Jews, Hindu or Muslims. have you seen the suicide bombers in the streets of Berlin, Warsaw, or Islamabad, or New Delhi yelling in Hebrew, german, or hindu, “Jihad”?.
I am also absolutely sure that by now you know, there are no such camps exist neither in Europe nor in India or Pakistan. Each country, with help from the international community, quietly and peacefuly absorbed their refugees - ALL EXCEPT THE ARABS. WHY? Don’t you see some oddity in it. Perhaps it has lot to do with one’s cultural, religious doctrine, and mind-set with tolerance and acceptance.
I guaranty you that, even Swisserland will become “savage” and accused as “baby killers” if anyone would target their woman and children, or launch rockets from outside their borders. There is no doubt, such provocation would meet the same harsh response as Israel have been trying to protect their civilians for past 60 years.
JGE: The Islamic countries are not occupying any land or any people. I never head that a Muslim or an Arab country is engaged in cutting olive trees so settlers from Brooklyn can build houses, or can have segregated roads at the expense of the natives.
JGE: As always you are a shameless blogger who masters demagogy and has no interests in the truth. You hardly read and interested in spins. Typical of your brand of international violators, baby killers, tree cutters, home demolishers, economy stranglers, water and land thieves and colonizers
DH You never hear nothing from the Islamic countries. Well you are one sided zealot. Dishonesty is the one arm you use. Pitty the poor Palestinians have this kind of defenders. Remember Shabes is over, your prayings, whatever they are, don’t convince anybody but the savage Muslim suicide bombers.
JGE: very simple, when you explain the killing of Rabin by a religious Jew who said “God told me to kill Rabin” and when you explain Baruch Goldstein’s massacring of Muslim in the tomb of the Patriarchs, and when you explain Ami Poper killing of eight Palestinian workers in Tel Aviv in 1991, after he asked them to line against the wall and massacred them in cold blood and when you explain why Shamir and Begin bombed the Camp David Hotel and killed 67 international civil servants, and when you explain Sharon’s killing of 55 Palestinians in Qubia and Shamir’s and Begin massacring 256 Palestinian civilians in Dire Yassin
Notice also before the American invasion of Iraq, we never heard of suicide bombings in that country and before Baruch Goldstein’s massacre in Hebron, we never heard of suicide bombing in Israel/Palestine
DH: Any comments?
FEBRUARY 13, 2009, 5:01 P.M. ET
Female Suicide Bomber Kills 40 in Iraq
Article
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more in World »
Associated Press
BAGHDAD — A female suicide bomber struck a tent filled with women and children resting during a pilgrimage south of Baghdad on Friday, killing 40 people and wounding about 80 in the deadliest of three straight days of attacks against Shiite worshippers.
The grisly assault, which also appeared to be the deadliest in Iraq this year, demonstrates the determination of some extremists to re-ignite sectarian warfare. It also underscores how fragile security remains here, even as the U.S. turns over more responsibility to the Iraqis.
The Fight for Iraq
See day-by-day events in the below interactive map.
Complete Coverage: News, blog, casualties
Witnesses said many of the injured were hurt in a stampede as terrified survivors — most of them poor Shiites exhausted after days of walking _ scrambled away from the tent in terror.
They left behind piles of clothing, small rugs and toddlers’ strollers, Associated Press Television News video showed. A dismembered leg believed to have been the bomber’s lay wrapped in an abaya in a cardboard box.
No group claimed responsibility. But suicide bombings against Shiite civilians are the signature attack of al-Qaeda in Iraq, which U.S. commanders say has been severely weakened but not defeated. “What kind of belief system do these people have? Are they monsters?” a man shouted as he held his dazed and wounded son, wrapped in a red and yellow blanket.
The bomber was successful in detonating her explosives despite a massive security operation by Iraqi authorities to protect the hundreds of thousands of pilgrims streaming into the Shiite holy city of Karbala for religious rituals that culminate Monday.
DH explain this side of Islam:
BAGHDAD — A suicide bomber hiding explosives under her garments killed 35 Shiite pilgrims south of Baghdad on Friday, who were walking in an annual procession to the holy city of Karbala that has often been targeted by extremists. Many of the dead were women and children.
Remember: There was no Hamas, no Talban, no Aksa Martyrs Brigade, no Hezbollah, and Iran was in the hands of Israel’s best ally the “Shah” and you kept killing the Palestinians and destroying there homes. In fact the Syrians have been offering you peace and you do not want. You do not have a culture of peace, you are a people who want to always cry “ Tamyed Bukhim” does it sound familiar? This is in reality of who you are. Your true racist color is showing little by little, in defining an entire cultures as drinking black coffee, and smoking water pipe. This is what your master Bernard Lewis and his three disciples Thomas Freidman, Judith Miler, and Daniel Pipes have been teaching America about Islam and the Middle East. The three have caused the war in Iraq and are responsible for the death of more than a million Arabs and Muslims in Iraq.
Remember DH responsibility, accountability and honesty will make you free.
As long as you can not admit that is Hamas killing your people, and Hezbollah, and Al Aqsa “martyrs”, and Syria and your muslim brothers keeping the palestinians in constant misery, you will never see the light at the end of the tunnels. You and your people are smoking too much narguilas and drinking black coffee. Watch the heroin of you taliban afgahn partners.
JGE: your new masters are the Lieberman’s and the Netanyahu’s and the Barak’s and the Livin’s of the world. All of them got to power on Palestinian blood and by killing babies. No Israeli prime minister will dream of sitting in his office without killing Palestinians by all means possible. As long as they have blind people like you who are full of hate, they will continue to be elected and will continue to be in power. Today you are linking the question of Palestine to Iran and Syria tomorrow, it will be linked to Venezuela, and the day after to global warming. Any distraction to talk about, but your naked violation of international law and your ethnic cleansing of a nation under occupation and your state sponsored terrorism.
DH
Your fanatic muslim masters have you blind. You spit hate and insults.
Poor palestinians your new masters are ayatollahs from Iran and dictator from Syria.
JGE: You are a shameless and a brain washed blogger. You have very little knowledge of world politics and you are Xenophobic human being
Alon Ben-Meir blames Israel for everything. You shoul read his recent papers to see his views. He forgets or ignores the lack of organization and leadership of the Palestinians. How the Palestinians have been used by their Arab and Muslim brothers as pawns of misery, exploitation, fanaticism and terrorism.
He goes to the old song and dance, the Jimmy Carter failed song and dance, Israel makes the concessions, the Arabs have no responsibilities and accountabilities, and the problem will be solved. Nonsense.
Dear World Focus,
Tonight, Tue Feb. 10, Martin Savidge interviewed Alon Ben-Meir of NYU on the outcome of the Israeli elections. Mr. Meir asserted that US pressure on Israel will be need to advance the “peace process”. He did not suggest any pressure on the Arab world or the Palestinians.
It doesn’t really matter if Israel’s PM is Livni or Netanyahu or Barak - or even Lieberman. They cannot bring peace - because the Palestinians are not prepared to make any compromises for peace. Golda Meir’s old dictum that there will be peace only when the Arabs love their children more than they hate Israel remains true.
Suppose Livni were to offer (as Barak did at Camp David) a handover of the West Bank. The “moderate” PA would pocket the concession, while refusing to budge on the spurious “right of return”. It would then declare the process a failure, and demand new negotiations that start from the previous Israeli concessions! This is what the Palestinians have consistently done.
Pressure on Israel is not going to bring peace. Rather it will encourage Arabs who see this as a sign that the US is preparing to sell out Israel, and as a sign of Israeli weakness.
Peace will only come when the Arab world changes its attitude, and genuinely accepts Israel as a permanent entity. It has to give up the idea of using the “peace process” for the step by step dismantling of Israel. The Palestinians have to move away from demanding that descendants of Arab refugees be resettled in pre-1967 Israel. (The US, EU, Israel, recommend resettlement in the West Bank). This demand denies the rights of the millions of Israelis whose parents were Jewish refugees from Arab lands. It is especially cynical as Arab initiated wars led to BOTH refugee issues.
Fianlly, there is the issue of Israeli “hardliners”. There is a totally different threshold for an Israeli to be a hardliner versus a Palestinian. Abbas is called moderate: yet he demands that the West Bank be made Judenrein, and that descendants of Arab refugees be resettled in pre-1967 Israel. Abbas
has not shifted an inch from Arafat’s platform on refugees, Jerusalem or borders; yet every statement he makes is treated as coming from someone with a halo. He has personally profited greatly from aid money, continues to fund the Al Aqsa Brigades, and has cracked down on all his opponents - yet is painted as a devoted democrat. His own past involvement in terror attacks, and his Holocaust denying book don’t attract a smidgeon of distaste. The PA media are often as virulent as Hamas TV in incitement, and all the PA
schools educate for endless war until Israel is dismantled.
Compare that to “hardline” Netanyahu or “center-right” Livni. Netanyahu made major concessions in the Wye agreement process. He has emphasized building up the Palestinian economy, and by no means ruled out a Palestinian state on the West Bank. He has repeatedly compromised when it has shown the smallest sign of it actually yielding results. Then there is “extremist” Avigdor Lieberman, but “moderate” elements in Hamas.
The media, expect Israelis to absorb endless amounts of clear Arab invective without ever reacting. You talk of radicalized Arabs, but never think what 60
years of Arab attacks have done to Israelis. You expect Israelis to laugh off statement from Israeli Arab MKs and the Palestinian Authority and Egypt and Jordan of Israel’s illegitimacy, and to ignore all the antisemitism, and not to take seriously constant threats.
Israel is subjected to a massive double standard.
Is better to have the fanatics hauling hateful desperate words than blowing up themselves killing innocent civilians in the buses in Israel.
And for the middle eastern marketers the internet does not cost a cent.
Hoever Iran is spending more arming and re-arming their pawns Hezbollah and Hamas.
The poor Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity!
I agree with Charles Senf. Also, I believe the world (U.N.) is responsible for setting up a genuinely democratic/secular state to replace Israel. Choosing between Israeli fundamentalism or Arab fundamentalism is no choice at all, they are the same thing. The stakes of this conflict impact the whole world, so we must get rid of Israel, and ALSO get rid of the fundamentalist regimes running Arab states. We must establish real democracy with secularism. Only the E.U. can do this, as the U.S. is increasingly a fundamentalist state of its own. Only Germany (E.U.) can save the jews now.
Abolish the State of Israel
If European Emigrants want to settle in the Middle East, let them immigrate into the existing Arab states (before the UN got involved) as we demand they do should they desire to live in New Jersey.
The Jewish Creation Myth deserves no more credance then any other and, if they cannot live in harmony with Muslims and Christians without “taking control,” they certainly should not look to America for support.
America has traded its founding principles for cheap oil and a lever in the old Cold War. Thousands of Middle East natives and immigrants have paid the price with their lives and fortunes.
It’s tie we (the United States) cut this nasty puppet’s strings and let the United Nations work its way without our traditional Veto.
See how dishonest you are, Israel never left Lebanon fully and never left Gaza fully. You left Lebanon but stayed in the Shiba Farms and redeployed from Gaza and controlled its crossings, thus never left it fully. Had you left fully and the Palestinians attacked you, you would ne justified 100% to attack and protect your civilians, but you repackaged the occupation and in a media spin tried to convince people around the globe that you had left, where indeed you never did. As for the human shield another Israeli spin, to justify civilian killing, many reports from Gaza say that you used Palestinians as human shields, remember Palestinians are under occupation and it is Israel’s responsibility to protect them, but not to kill them. Go read the Geneva Conventions
DH: Come on, Hamas and Hezbollah put the arms around civilians. Your Palestinians are now recognizing that. Israelies protect their babies from rocket attacks by using shelters. Hamas and Hezbollah use the civilians ashuman shields. Talk to your people in Gaza and Lebanon and find the thruth. Ask them how Hamas shot at their own civilians that did not want to cooperate.
Do you want Israel to be attacked and not defend themselves.
Israel left Lebanon and then were attacked by Hezbollah. They left Gaza and were attacked by Hamas. Israel has to defend itself.
JGE: I did not expect any better from someone who loves to see babies bombed and calls that self defense
DH: The premise is the same and will be always the same. Israelis will defend themselves from attacks. And that will continue.
How sweet of you, now you are striking a thoughtful tone, reading your first bloggers did not show any of that. Indeed you have been stuck in your information and you can not repeat the same. Go read and come back and blog. Do not worry, about my time, worry about your values and your conscious. Once you stop supporting the killing of Palestinians, many problems will be solved. I disagree with you on hating Israel, you hate the Palestinians, the Arabs, the Muslims, per your blogs, I disagree with certain Israeli values: killing the innocent, destroying homes, cutting trees, building settlements, building walls on occupied lands, and treating Arabs as second class or even third class citizens, considering the Sephardim to second class. I was never brought up to hate, but always told to speak truth to power which you are falling to do. Peres is a coward because he is still justifying Palestinian blood. He never was a true leader. You say sixty years of —– never took us anywhere, what about you sixty years of killing Palestinians and other Arabs took you where? You feel less secure than 1948, without international protection and money, you will be bankrupt, and you will defeated by any Arab army. So think again about the logic of the use of force against babies
DH: Your Palestinian accountants gave the figures. Please find out also how much it cost Iran the thousands of arms given to your Hamas and Hezbollah.
And the figure out how much it would have helped the Gazans and other poor Palestinians to live peacefully.
Also DH figure out how much energy you are spending in the hate Israel effort, and how you could help your poor Palestinians think of creating a life of peace. Do you believe of Gandhi and the Indian miracle of progress? Terror and killing takes you nowhere. Sixty years of terror has delivered poorer and poorer Palestinians.
By the way I disagree with you calling Shimon Peres a coward. He is a very distinguished leader, even if he tried to make peacee with Arafat.
Peres economic models has made Israel where it is today.
Hatred takes you into enthropy, which is wasted energy. Think positive DH. Salem or Shalom eh?
JGE: Well, Well, Well, we all can tell who is mad now!!! I am waiting for your well informed opinion. Are you shocked because you ran out of arguments? No more shouting it seems to me. Logic got you??? All you wanted is a screamer, but you got information instead. As always Israeli bloggers begin with five sentences. The Arabs want to kill us, people are anti-Semitic, Arabs want to push us into the sea, we want defend ourselves by killing babies and using F16s and then you run out of arguments, because you have none. You do not want to admit that you are a rouge state, and you still think that you are a democracy. As always the West Bank and Gaza are not Germany, if you need a map, I will be very happy to buy one
The truth is no sin but makes you not only uncomfortable but really mad.
GJE. So the Germans made you kill Palestinians and the Palestinians made you kill them WOW, I love you logic. Baruch Goldstein became a killer after the Palestinians made him crazy. And why did the Settlers in Kiryat Arab made his tomb a mausoleum? Because the Palestinians gave the design? Face reality and acknowledge that yours is a culture of hate, and you must be brave enough to face reality. Rabin’s apologies did not bring one family their loved ones back and he was not a good because he kept the settlers in Hebron and the West Bank
David Hoffman: Tell the truth about Baruch Goldstein in Hebron, and the appologies that Itzhak Rabin gave to the Palestinians. That Baruch Goldstein had been depressed by the constant killings of civilians by terrorists Palestinians, and went into a rampage of craziness. Nobody ever heard Palestinians or Arabs appologize for killing and maiming thousands of Israeli civilians.
Your distortions are dishonest.
People like you will make Israel Beyteynu win a handsome majority.
The truth is no sin but makes you not only uncomfortable but really mad.
The tomb of the Patriarchs has been in total Jewish control since a “Civilized Jewish” doctor by the name of Baruch Goldstein originally from Brooklyn massacred 29 Muslims inside it on Feb 25, 1994. It was Ramadan and Muslims were praying at 5:00 in the morning and a peace loving doctor went with his machine gun and killed worshipers while kneeling. JGE, you still think that Hamas has a charter to kill, where in reality you have been killing Palestinians since 1948. Israel has killed more Palestinians than anybody on earth, but none can say that about the Palestinians except those who have been taught history in Israeli schools.
JGE: Your blog has two arguments, Jimmy Carter is bad and that the Palestinians must die because Germany Killed the Jews. I do not accept either. The Carter Center has more Jewish scholars on its board than any other center and Carter gave the best service to Israel by taking Egypt out of the conflict.
I red Moshe Dayan’s memoirs and what he says about the Syrian conflict contradicts yours 100%, unless you want to say that Dayan is anti Jewish. Read his and see what he says about Israel constantly provoking Syria between 1964-1967. Israel’s sole purpose was water and land from the Golan Heights. You say that the Muslims control Temple Mount and the tomb of the Patriarchs, not true at all. Israel has been digging under the Al Aksa mosque in hops of destroying it and the army does not allow Muslims from Jerusalem less than 45 years to pray inside especially on Fridays. In addition, Muslims and Christians from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are not allowed to enter Jerusalem to pray at all anytime. Israel is blockading the city and building walls inside them.
As I said before, I have no problems Israel building 100 walls on its territory, I have a problem with stealing land under the cover of security. Israel can build walls around each city and should not allow Palestinians into its cities at all, but all these walls must be on Israeli territory not Palestinian. If you have a problem with the Germans, you know the location of Germany go declare a war there. Gaza and the West Bank do not boarder Germany at all
Well, where was International Law when Palestinian terrorists were killing and maiming Israeli civilians? Where are your feelings towards Jews killed?
Hams controls Gaza and their charter is to kill Jews; your confusion with Israel Beiteynu is only one party, and even if they win a majority which is highly unlikely Israel will not kill for killing sake, they will defend themselves as it should be.
Jimmy Carter is fanatically anti-Israel, and always was. The peace agreement between Beguin and Sadat was mainly between themselves. Beguin had sent notice to Sadat that fanatics were trying to kill him, that Israeli intelligence had intercepted, in spite of the fact that Sadat had attacked in the Yom Kippur War. Jimmy Carter takes credit dishonestly, attacks Israel at any opportunity, and minimizes Arab terrorist attacks against Israel. He deeply hates Israel, and like the ultra-orthodox Jewish Naturiekarter believes that Israel has to be delivered by God, never by secular Jews. Jimmy Carter and his Carter Center is total bigotry against Israel.
And to the fact that Egypt had control of Gaza from 1948 to 1967, and that they allowed terrorists to attack Israel constantly, resulted in the 1967 war in which Israel wiped Egypt and captured the Sinai and Gaza, took the Golan Heights from Syria that Syria had used to fire constantly at Israel, and took Jerusalem and the Wets Bank from Jordan, remember Jews were not allowed to pray at their holly places under Jordan. However The Muslims have total control of the Temple Mount, the Patriarchs tombs in Hebron.
The Arabs and those that hate Israel screamed foul, only when Israel defended themselves. When Israel is attacked everyone keeps quiet.
Remember that the wall and the ongoing constant capture of hundreds of terrorists in the West Bank is to protect the lives of the Israelis.
Equating Hamas constitution of killing the Jews and Iran threats of wiping Israel has no equivalent to Israeli desire to leave in peace. Israel keeps quiet but ready to defend itself. And Iran and their pawns Syria, Hamas and Hezbollah are under notice.
The truth is no sin only uncomfortable.
JGE: None is criticizing Israel for self defense, however I am criticizing Israel for aggression, and there is a huge difference between the two. Israel has the right to a build a wall, but on its territory not on illegally occupied land, do you see the difference? The people you call terrorists in the West Bank are civilians under occupation and international law gave them the right to resist occupation, but international law did not give Israel the right to occupy, kill, settle, cut trees, destroy wells, demolish homes, evict people from their homes, and finally use F16s to bomb refugee camps. According to international law, the safety and the well being of all Palestinians in the occupied territories is Israel’s responsibility, but apparently Israel choose ethnic cleansing rather. You say Hamas’s charter is to kill Jews, what is the charter of “Israel’s Bytanu” isn’t he a Kahan supporter and someone who advocates killing and expelling the Arabs? What are you going to tell him when he wins more than 20 seats in the Israeli Knesset? Or it is ok, he is a Jew. He can hate, he can kill, he can talk, he can expel and, (Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East) As for Jimmy Carter, none served Israel more than him, he neutralized Egypt and gave Israel a free hand to kill all the Arabs while Egypt is looking frozen in a deceptive peace agreement. Imagine Israel invading Gaza in a time of war with Egypt, or doing the same in Lebanon. Impossible, so instead of belittling Carter, Israelis must give him the highest award and the Arabs are the ones who should shout at him
Israel defends itself and is criticized. Palestinian terrorists disguised as suicide bombers killed and maimed thousands of Israeli civilians, hence the wall was built and constantly Israel is capturing terrorists in the West Bank.
Hamas has the charter of killing Jews, they attack Israel with thousands of rockets and finally Israel reacts counterattacking.
Those that hate Israel condemned the self defense tactics.
These hate Israel zealots deny the Nobel Peace prize to Menachem Beguin, Itzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres. But accept Nobel Peace prize for Anwar Sadat, and the Israel haters Yasir Arafat and Jimmy Carter.
The true facts do not sin but make you uncomfortable.
Gludius: Both your guess and your assumption are wrong. A human is a human and killing is killing regardless of race, color, religion and nationality. However, the question is, what type of democracy is Israel leading? a liberal democracy, a racist democracy, an ethnic democracy, a rabbinical democracy or what?????? I would love for you to answer the question, and based on your answer I will have a better idea where you stand. Israel can not be a democracy, but constantly violating international and human laws. The piece we saw is not about Palestinians from the occupied territories in which Israel is ethnically cleansing by F16s in clear violations of international law and the Geneva conventions. Building the Wall, cutting the trees, building settlements, assassinating civilians, and altering the geographic means of the West Bank and Gaza. The show was about “equal citizens” in a democracy. I viewed the show more than 10 times to look for any ray of hope, I did not find any. All I saw was a segregated society and an Israeli journalist admitting that, not an Arab. I saw the job opportunities, infrastructure, development, and more. Israel is divided a cross cultural, social, economic, and political lines. Arab neighborhoods are very clear to identify. Now you could say Sudan is the same, but Sudan is a terrorist and none democratic state, Iran and Pakistan are the same. The question is Israel about to join that club of rouge states or it wants to be a member of …..?????????? Electing Lieberman to the Knesset will tell the whole world that Israelis are accepting hate and racism as values in their homes and in their society
Mr. Hoffman you conveniently refuses to admit that the countries that raise their voice against the lack of democracy in Israel are the ones committing crimes against humanity against their own citizens. Where were your voice and the voices of others when these crimes were committed? I guess the life of one Palestinian is worth more then the life of a Black Muslim in Darfur.
Gludius: I am so happy that you are comparing Israel to Iran, Pakistan, and the Sudan. No more Norway or Sweden. You came down from Ivory tower claiming that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. By your own admission and comparison, I rest may case. I hope in your response to me you will cite Moughaby and his atrocities as an example of Israel’s tolerance of the natives.
Miron: The natives were there before you and your parents, certainly before Avigdor Lieberman, but look he will be in a position to determine their lives and their future under the so called only democracy in the Middle East. None should tell the Arabs to leave, for they are the original owners of the land. Israel would like the Palestinians to pay for what Germany did to the Jews, very unfair. If Israel and Jewish people have any problems with the Germans go settled, but not the expense of the poor Palestinians who have nothing left for them in their own land
Most jews belong in germany, why did they occupy a land that is in the middle of the arab countries and killing their civilians and children using illeagal weapons and bombs? Please please please give me one reason to hate hamas?
have you ever wondered what happend to the “promised land” that the arabs lent to the jews for a period of time?
There is no more natzism so why dont they go back to where they came from.
Clearly invaders, thugs and murderers are unwelcomed in the arab lands
we made a grave mistake in supporting israel which has drawn us the terrorists target
i hope obama will fix that problem
It was refreshing to see Israel for once covered as a society in the two pieces by Michael Greenspan. However, he spent one piece on Israel as an immigrant society, focusing on Russians and more recent non-Jewish immigrants. And there was an equally long segment on Israeli Arabs, viewed sympathetically from their perspective. Its instructive to note that virtually none want to live under the Palestinian Authority.
There may be 1.5 million Israeli Arabs, but there are more than double as many Israelis whose parents were Jewish refugees from Arab lands. He has one single phrase for them “Jews from Muslim lands”!
How long will it take to focus on the Jewish refugees from Arab lands whose descendants make up half of Israel’s populace? How long will it take to tell of their tragic history under Arab rule? Discrimination in Israel cannot simply cannot compare.
Wow, I’m shocked, not by the program but by Mr. Hoffman’s comment on this page:
“This the truth about Israel,” obviously Mr. Hoffman views himself objectivly as a TRUTH SAYER. “The first report was not balanced at all, the second one was more balance, but not enough.” Because to show enough would mean to bringing in more balance by injecting HIS objectivity? “It should have shown that Jews have homes with shelters and Arabs do not.” Without asking why don’t their homes have shelters. Just letting the viewer assume it’s discriminatory! “It should have shown the story the Zubi’s daughter who was kicked out of kindergarten because she was an Arab.” Without revealing that this was profiled by Israeli journalists to highlight problems between communitities since she left because the other Israeli parents don’t trust the Israeli Arabs. “Israel is the most racist state on earth.”
And therefore MY WOW. This ignorant statement by this journalist, in this case a misnoner, is objective evidence that he can not be relied upon for balanced reporting, his stated future objective. “I hope one day real statistics will be allowed and people see who teaches hate in his schools Arabs or Jews.” I doubt he will provide a real side by side report of the education system in any Arab country and Israel. SIDE BY SIDE review of childrens programs and domestic news critics. “The level of arrogance in Israel is unprecedented in any country on earth.” Has Mr. Hoffman been everywherer on earth? “The desire to kill Arabs is unmatched.” Again superlatives abound, how balanced of you Mr Hoffman.
Hung by his own words, how perfect………….
It seems there is legacy on your show left by the biased BBC. That is to best vilify Israel with only half the story. In addition to the challanges faced by the Israeli government with anti-Israel activities and non-compliance practiced by many of the “Isreali-Arabs” we would like to see a balanced report re: How are Jews treated in Muslim countries, for example: Iran, Syria and etc. (Are there Jews allowed in their armies or anywhere in governments)The reports probably should not be from Al-Jeezera or other Arab/Muslim reporters. What other country in the Middle East would come to close to challanges faced by Israel with a minority people trying to subvert it?
The segment featuring the Israeli soccer (and Israeli Arabs in general) was not sharp. It didn’t discuss how the Arab community doesn’t buy into the system in Israel (doesn’t pay taxes; doesn’t vote; and doesn’t do national service) which is why they’re deprived services.
Even though there’s dicrimination, the Israeli government is actually desperate to integrate its Arabs; it understands the dangers of having a separate education and economic system for them since they’ll eventually claim autonomy.
No mention of the Arabs as a politica bloc rejecting the Jewish state and their attempts to subvert it through their future vision: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/02/25/the_other_israelis/
Average Israeli Arabs are made to suffer by their radical Arab leaders.
I believe if you fill not good in Israel you can go to Aza now or other arab country.Israel is Jewish state like Iran and etc. muslim state.You want leave in yours culter please,but dont ask another people think about like this.Please leave Jewish alone.Of course you want live better so respect this country.Again Israel was created Jewish and want will be jewish.
Mr. Hoffman, your ignorance rivals your stupidity. Although Israel is not perfect, it is by far better than Pakistan, Sudan, Saudi-Arabia, Egypt, Russia etc. Even in France Muslims are discriminated against, but you and people like you don’t have the courage to face the fact that the worse crimes committed against Muslims were by their so called Muslims brothers i.e. Darfur, Algeria, Gaza, Yemen etc.
Miron: This the truth about Israel, The first report was not balanced at all, the second one was more balance, but not enough. It should have shown that Jews have homes with shelters and Arabs do not. It should have shown the story the Zubi’s daughter who was kicked out of kindergarten because she was an Arab. It should have shown how many Arabs are University professors, and government employees and so on. Israel is the most racist state on earth. I hope one day real statistics will be allowed and people see who teaches hate in his schools Arabs or Jews. The level of arrogance in Israel is unprecedented in any country on earth. The desire to kill Arabs is unmatched.
Did anyone notice that Arabs in Israel live better then those in most Arab Countries. What happens to demonstrators in most Arab Countries or those that say things against the Government. How much free speech is there in the Arab or Persian world.
I hope you approve my comments.I had walked by myself in Aza/2005,may/,Hevron,West bank/becouse I am Jew and I cant came into Ramalla,Jerihon!I saw many things.I will happy when arabs who not like Israel go to arab country and leave us alone.Your comment not correct and realy not truth. Jew never made Linch like arabs/1929,2000…etc/This is different civilezation.
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10/27/2009 :: 02:14:13 PM
Nick Says:
Isreal=zionisim=hatered,death to arabs,steal innocent people homes and lands, destroy schools, limit water, and electricity to palestenians, kill women , children and old people, be racist to arabs, control the u.s and its media, make people from all over the world feel bad for them because of the holocaust, and what they do in gaza, west bank, and to the arab isrealies is alright by killing and destrying thier future.
so where is the HOPE in this little country? its government is corrupt and its people dont even understand anything about the palestenians like that dude that was eating.
the problem is with the people. they both have to understand eachother.
most israelis dont want to understand, they are happy like this. they live in peace and the palestinians live in araes sorounded by check points and curfews and huge walls like the berlin wall !!
and whhen one lives in this situation what would that person want to do? probably throw rockets at isreal and committ a suicide attack because they are already dead just by living that situation.
the palestenians are all victims and they have no future. a person who is jewish and follows judaism and is a beleiver is agianst israel and zionism because zioninsm is terrorism.
oh and one last thing: hummus , falafel ,tabuoleh and baba ghanoush are arab foods and not isrealis !! they steal arab lands and now they want to steal their food too. how lame!!